£6 Broadband Tax Confirmed
Taxing the internet - genius.Published 10/12/2009 at 12:40 by Tuffcub
Quite possibly the most stupid tax ever to have been suggested has now been confirmed by the current government Chief of Eyebrows, Alistair Darling. The money will be used to ensure the country has access to ’superfast’ broadband by 2017. This is a revision of the original plan to ensure ’superfast’ 2 Meg broadband to everyone by 2010. To announce the tax, Darling said,
“We are modernising the UK’s digital infrastructure and, in the process, creating thousands more skilled jobs. We have provided funding to help extend the opportunities of the broadband network to more remote communities.
“We now want to go further, so we can provide the next generation of super-fast broadband to 90% of the population by the end of 2017.”
Let’s just clarify a few things. Firstly there is no definition of what “super fast” broadband is. 50 Meg is fast today but in 2017 you can bet your bottom dollar 50 Meg will be very slow – seven years ago we were all on dial up modems and were lucky to get 1 Meg an hour. Secondly, this is not just a tax on those of us with broadband; anyone with a fixed telephone line (i.e. not a mobile) will be paying it, even if they do not have broadband at present.
The roll out of broadband is for “90%” of the country by 2017. I’m shocked by this, to be honest I don’t mind paying £6 a year if it means a school in some remote part of Wales gets broadband but 10% of the country – obviously the areas that are difficult to reach with broadband – still will not have internet. So what exactly are we paying this tax for?
Going back a month or two ago you may remember I rated Ed Vaizey a ‘Fail’ when it came to the Conservatives views on this tax. They have announced that if they win the next election they will scrap this tax and favour a ‘market lead approach’ – in other words get the big companies like BT to push broadband as far as they can go before the government steps in.
Comments
Please note that all comments are the opinion of the individual author and not TheSixthAxis.
flatspikes | 10/12/2009 12:44
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So… £6 extra on our bills is coming soon… well I guess my in-laws in Wick will soon have faster download speeds…
Erroneus | 10/12/2009 16:55
Wanted "Trophy Hunter" but was too late.
2981 TSA Points | Member since: May 2009
Such laws are sooooo stupid. We have one similar in Denmark, which pays the national tv station “DR”. Now the rule is, if you have a TV or an internet connection faster then 256 Kbit (whatever it’s on a phone, pc or console) you have to pay…. 2250 DKR, which equals almost 275£… it’s fucking retarded.
This means a young poor student, who doesn’t have a TV, but needs an Internet connection, eg. for schoolwork, has to pay 275£ per year extra. And why? Because he MIGHT visit http://www.dr.dk and use some of the services on the site.
And you are automatically charged with it, as they assume everyone either has TV or an internet connection faster then 256 Kbit. On top of this, they had added a new tax, which starts next month, if you borrow a laptop from work, you have to pay tax of 3000 DKR (365£) a year >_> Sometime I hate this country, run by a bunch of hill billies.
Raen | 10/12/2009 19:18
Team TSA: Writer
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Wow that’s kind of crazy. You have to pay over here if you have a TV and an aerial, but that’s only about £130 and it funds the BBC which I don’t mind too much, it puts out good original content.
Erroneus | 10/12/2009 20:05
Wanted "Trophy Hunter" but was too late.
2981 TSA Points | Member since: May 2009
Yeah it used to be like that also, though the price has always been up around 275£ But last year they added the “internet part” to the law also.
While DR (“our” BBC) does create some decent content, I maybe watch max one hour a week from them, so the price and condition are ridiculous.
Joe | 11/12/2009 05:44
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raen, how do they know you have a tv? couldnt you just not tell them?
carlosfilippsen | 10/12/2009 12:44
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They just try to find every possible way there is to take our money..
cam the man | 10/12/2009 22:26
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That’s the British tax system for ya.
Jamie Solo | 10/12/2009 12:44
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I dont know why he bothers. Labour will be out in the next election and the next incompetent fool will just change things anyway.
yobrenoops | 10/12/2009 12:45
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£6 a year is sod all really. If you begrudge £6 a year I worry for people.
As someone that works for BT, this “tax” is the difference between the accelerated roll-out of NGA we’re seeing now, and a much more sedate one (which was first mooted last summer).
As for arease that don’t currently have broadband, with the release of BET (Broadband Enablement Technology) for help with long lines, this should alleviate much of the not-spots. However some areas are always going to be difficult, with the hoped for USO of 2MB this should put in place affordable Satellite or Wireless BB.
carlosfilippsen | 10/12/2009 12:47
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1316 TSA Points | Member since: Mar 2009
£6 for each one of us is sod all. But they will be get £6 from millions of people which make it a hell of a lot of money which they will be robbing from all of us.
yobrenoops | 10/12/2009 12:49
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Robbing? Really? How so?
ray_gillespie | 10/12/2009 13:09
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Taking without permission.
I don’t begrudge the £6, it’s the total waste of money that I begrudge. This is simply another stealth tax.
yobrenoops | 10/12/2009 13:13
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@ray_gillespie
If you can explain how its a waste of money, I’ll be happy to agree with you?
ray_gillespie | 10/12/2009 14:37
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If you knew how much money this Government wastes every single day you wouldn’t believe it. I see no reason why this latest tax should be any different. I’m very much in favour of expanding broadband across remote parts of the country but anything the Government does costs twice as much and delivers half as much as the private sector equivalent does.
yobrenoops | 10/12/2009 14:41
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@ray_gillespie
Enlighten me. I’d love to know.
JustHonour | 10/12/2009 14:43
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@yobrenoops
Can you guarantee all money collected from this tax will go directly into the stated cause? If you can, I would happily sign on (I’m a Brit living overseas) to ensure an equal standard of education and knowledge for all on the British Isles…
yobrenoops | 10/12/2009 14:52
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@JustHonour
Check the links and notes I posted at the very bottom of all the comments, you might have to hit newer comments.
Some good non-biased info there.
cc_star | 10/12/2009 15:14
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No @JustHonour, sadly it won’t go towards laying one mile of fibre:
1. Unelected quango will be appointed
2. Board of unelected quango will meet (on expenses) and award themselves £300k+ a year salary
3. Board of said Quango will all appoint staff which report to themselves and these will be paid far more than they would in any private, commercial company
4. These staff will carry out hugely expensive research which will come up with the same findings we already know – billions are needed.
5. The paltry £175m this tax will raise will be exhausted quicker then you can say “we haven’t enough money left for some Jaffa Cakes”
6. Board of Quango goes back to government and says they need the tax doubling or quadrupling so that they can afford to paint their summerhouse whilst getting their moat cleaned
7. Cameron tells them to ‘eff off and get a real job which aids the country rather than drains from it.
8. 2017 comes around and unquantifiable superfast (non-SMART) target is missed, Brown & Darling don’t care because Brown becomes a UN figurehead and Darling works for the IMF giving guidance to developing countries on how to stiff their tax payers for every penny they’ve got.
ray_gillespie | 10/12/2009 16:14
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@yobrenoops
Just read this: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Bumper-Book-Government-Waste-2008/dp/1905641486
illogicology | 10/12/2009 16:49
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Considering that the public BT were rolling out fibreoptic line until it was privatised and they then went about digging up all the cable and putting the old back in so they could sell off the fibreoptics, I think it definitely counts as robbing us.
Tuffcub | 10/12/2009 12:52
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We already pay VAT on phone lines, that’s quite enough. BT 1st quarter profits were 613 million, 3q quarter were 513 million. Cant find 2nd q profits. Obviously shareholders should be paid, but should shareholders be paid at the expense of taxing the rest of the country? No.
yobrenoops | 10/12/2009 12:55
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You should check the Pension liability. Thats where all the money is going right now…
Tuffcub | 10/12/2009 12:57
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We’re not talking about that though are we? And Im quite aware how much of my tax money is being wasted – epsecially when I’m about to get hit with about 5 grands worth of tax.
yobrenoops | 10/12/2009 13:00
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So your implication is that this “wasted tax money” is going direct to BT. It isn’t, it’ll go into a central, governmentally administered pot, that people bid for.
bajere | 10/12/2009 13:03
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the £6 tax is just another way of boosting money out our pockets, fine im used to it…the problem is, ill pay the £6 to BT, BT will pass it on to the goverentment, the government will then put it in a pot, then the government will give it back to BT to carry out the work to give us ’super fast broadband’…some one will take a cut at each step, so by the end of it only £2 will end up going into the new tech.
Also, what the government says is ’super fast’ we’ll just think standard. I mean, if they think 2mb is fast for 2010 they must be smoking some strong crack! its 2009 and i have a 10mb line, its still not fast enough to stream hi-def content at a good rate! ’super fast’ to me for 2017 would be 1GB minim
Tuffcub | 10/12/2009 13:03
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Yes, those companies will billions of pounds of profit. Why should they TAKE money from everyone else to expland THEIR network to improve THEIR profits?
bajere | 10/12/2009 13:21
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if the tax was paied to the government direct, then it wouldn’t be so bad, but to pay BT/Virgin/whom ever, then go around it in the way i described above just seems a waste…i don’t mind paying a little more for the UK to have quicker internet connections, but as long as it gets used effectively. i HATE paying normal tax as it just gets spunked by the government!
carlosfilippsen | 10/12/2009 14:23
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@yobrenoops
You sound like you work for the government mate..
yobrenoops | 10/12/2009 14:25
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Ha maybe so. I’m just trying to get peoples facts straight cos I hear so much anecdotal and plain wrong crap about this everyday with work. I thought I’d work to make theSixthAxis an oasis of BB policy knowledge and calm..
lewis815 | 10/12/2009 13:20
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Not all of us are on decent wages Mr high and mighty, and some people have kids to feed, not everyone can afford the stupid taxes of every single thing ever created by the history of man.
Its pathetic. We already pay for broadband.. Im not saying £6 a year is going to break the bank, but its all these little taxes on everything that is what is driving the world in to recession oblivion. How about taking 6 million about of the absurd amount that bankers are paying themselves as a bonus..
bajere | 10/12/2009 13:30
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1068 TSA Points | Member since: Aug 2008
It does seem to be the trend…
Council tax,
Car/road tax,
Value added tax,
Shipping Tax,
Income tax
Broadband tax,
Savings tax,
Inheritance tax
im sure the list goes on
Thing that makes me laugh/cry, is that our money gets taxed at every pass; ie:
I want to buy a beer, so the money i got from my wages goes into my bank.gets taxed. i pay the bar tab, card transaction charge gets taxed. the landlord accepts the money, he gets taxed. the beer i just bought had tax on it. the supplier the beer came from got taxed. the fuel to bring the beer to the pub, taxed…so on and so on. its a joke when you think about it!
My employer pays me £1,
lewis815 | 10/12/2009 14:32
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Makes you wonder how the hell we are 800 billion in debt or whatever it is..
bunimomike | 10/12/2009 12:46
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I’m in the middle of a heated MSN conversation already over this one. Is there a good answer? We can only get 1Mbit here and I’m happy if the government can help us lowly gits double up to 2Mbit by late 2010 (for example). Equally, I’d be happy to pay this tax even if I was on my old 20Mbit connection (back in Wales, I might add
). The only thing I can hope is that tax (year on year) consistently goes to helping the slower-connected parts of the country no matter where they are.
yobrenoops | 10/12/2009 12:48
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Depends where you are to be honest. It’ll be done on economic grounds initially so if you live some with low population density then, unfortunately, you’ll probably be at the back of list. Getting together specific community groups to publicise particular regional issues always helps. Get the council involved.
AFAIK, The tax will go into a governmental pot that companies can bid for to help pay for BB rollout.
bunimomike | 10/12/2009 12:51
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I understand what you’re saying but at least we’ll be on the list of “slow-ass-buggers-to-get-up-to-speed” which is a far smaller list than the “let’s-get-everyone-up-to-50Mbit” chappie. That one will take years to achieve and I’m hoping that my pretend list of crap connections (read: me) will be implemented far quicker.
yobrenoops | 10/12/2009 12:57
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Again unfortunately it has to be economic, even for this slow speed to better speed group. Are you remote from the exchange? Do you know your line length? If its long you’ll get a boost from BET.
Tuffcub | 10/12/2009 13:00
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Im in Streatham in central london, the fastest I can get is “up to 10″. Im about 5 miles away from the Palace of Westminster where that smug faced git Darling announced this. If I cant get “superfast” broadband whats the chances of some farmer in Wales getting it? It’s a load of utter shitty bollocks.
yobrenoops | 10/12/2009 13:05
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Up to 10MB? Is that Virgin? You’d be suprised at some of the poor lineplant or weird routings in cities. If your on some old alumnium cable your mostly stuffed. However you’ll find that you’ll be upgraded to FTTC quicker than most. I can’t remember what the rollout plan looks like but I imagine end of 2010 to mid 2011 for your up to 50mb/s service.
bunimomike | 10/12/2009 13:06
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I’m close to not having broadband at all. Just a hundred yards or so from the outer-extremities of the exchange. Sadly, we’ve been told that when the LLU happens (whenever that is) we might actually lose broadband altogether as the LLU enhances things up to a certain point but has to cut things off near the fringe, as it were. Fibre-optic is the answer but we’ve all read about the costs of that little gem. NTL (now Virgin Media) has it right, kind of. Go bankrupt laying out a good network to a decent portion of the UK then sit smugly above BT for years to come.
yobrenoops | 10/12/2009 13:09
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473 TSA Points | Member since: Nov 2008
@bunimomike
BET will be for you then. Means you can get some better service on lines out past 12km. Theres even been 512kb connects on stuff out at 18-20km if I remember the test information. Its still on trial at the moment. Goto thinkbroadband.com for more details.
djhsecondnature | 10/12/2009 12:47
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*sigh*
yobrenoops | 10/12/2009 12:49
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Why sigh?
djhsecondnature | 10/12/2009 12:56
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This following the budget report yesterday is just depressing.
yobrenoops | 10/12/2009 12:59
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I don’t understand how its depressing, the opportunity to kickstart the upgrading of the countries infrastructure (at the cost of just 50p per month) even during a serious recession is great. People should be excited.
djhsecondnature | 10/12/2009 13:29
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Do you really think that we will see ’super-fast’ broadband speeds? Also, 90%? It should be 100% without question. If it all turns out wonderfully I’ll be happy to say I was wrong but some how I don’t see it.
Anthony72 | 10/12/2009 13:30
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267 TSA Points | Member since: Jun 2009
@yobrenoops My porblem is this. £6 not a porblem if it wasnt going to pay someones bonus. BT make enough money out of people with landlines as it is. Because of this they should be reinvesting those profits back into the company to make their system the one people want. They shouldnt rely on the people to pay for them to have a superior offer.This harks back to the BT Cellnet days and the breakaway of o2 as a seperate company. BT Cellent paid £10 billion for the 3g license then when o2 broke away they LEFT THE DEBT WITH BT. Thus they became the biggest mobile operator in the country overnight ( I know this as afct as Im quite high up and work for o2 ). So if BT is going to PUT SOME MONEY back into the econmy and not sit on the great big profit they will make from this then Im happy to pay the £6 if not then forget it. Another day another shodding tax by people supposed to be running the country for our intersts and not big buisness.
Bankzy108 | 10/12/2009 13:35
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Yobrenoops you seem to follow this £6 tax – you would seeing as you work for BT where you have been brainwashed by the sounds of it.
The fact is everyone with a phone line will have to pay this tax which most people won’t see a return on their money for many years to come or if at all for over a decade?
Yes it’s only £6 per phoneline yet you imagine all the phone lines…thats alot of money and its not really the cost to the individuals – it’s the principle. I and many others won’t see a change to their internet infrastructure, the people that will? The people that live in major city’s such as London, Manchester, Liverpool, ect. I for one don’t live in a big city, yet I will still have to pay £6 a year to pay for other people’s connection speed.
The Goverment are looking for more ways to get money off us. New taxes are being introduced here and there. Companies like BT make a shit load of money a year and their executives are taking money which they don’t deserve – instead filter that into the infrastructure of this country. After all there the people that fight for our money and seeing as business is constructed on competition they should be the ones shouting ‘Oi look at our broadband speeds, there better than such and such’. Instead they want us to pay for it.
Total crap. It’s principle rather than the money.
yobrenoops | 10/12/2009 13:49
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How can I say this again?
THE MONEY DOES NOT GO TO DIRECT TO BT!
The money is put into a fund and suppliers have to bid for it if they want to use it. BT are only collecting the money for this like they collect VAT, because it would be the law.
Saying that BT are throwing money away left and right is ridiculous. People still seem to be under the impression that the company is a Public entity. It is not and is subject to what the shareholders require. They are under NO obligation to do this for altruistic means.
And don’t insult me by saying I’m brainwashed by BT. This is my job hence my interest in getting the facts out there as opposed to hokey suppositional nonsense from people that don’t have a clue. I am the first the call BT when it does ridiculous things but I believe that the company is doing the best it can with its NGA program.
cc_star | 10/12/2009 13:53
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@Yobrenoops
You’re living in cloud cuckoo land if you think the paltry amount raised by this tax will go any further than set up yet another unelected quango who will decide how to spend the money, whilst at the same time causing a drain on the pot themselves.
They will then conclude that billions need investing as the current pot from this tax isn’t even big enough to keep them in Jaffa Cakes
RadioactiveMouse | 10/12/2009 12:50
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Sounds like the government advisers have yet again been picked from the bottom of the technological pile. They seem to waste money left, right and centre on people who cannot see the current and future needs of the country’s technological infrastructure.
They need to set out a clear plan for how things are going to be improved and set down estimated roll-outs for speed and accessibility. A vague plan to tax everyone with a phone line is NOT what is needed with no idea how or where it is being implemented.
yobrenoops | 10/12/2009 12:53
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Unfortunately the spend to get FTTH for the entire country is an uneconomical £28bn. Even countrywide FTTC is ~£23bn if I remember right. In this economy its completely unjustified.
There will be a very clear plan when the government actually decides if they are going to go with the tax or not.
RadioactiveMouse | 10/12/2009 13:00
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Mmmm the problem I have with it is that we are so far behind some less economically developed countries and for it to get this bad shows that the governments focus has been sorely misplaced.
Look at Latvia or South Korea for example, someone in both of those examples had the foresight to see that broadband infrastructure would be driving businesses and most of the population’s lives. Therefore they are light years ahead of Britain even when we are one of the economic centres of the world
Fair play if they publish a roadmap that details their plans but I can’t see that happening any time soon
DJ Judas | 10/12/2009 12:50
Epic
515 TSA Points | Member since: Aug 2008
I don’t want to pay this, the same way I don’t want to pay NI or income tax, or road tax, or council tax, or VAT.
But I have no choice. I just love my money being wasted.
bunimomike | 10/12/2009 12:53
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So you don’t want NHS or free education or half-decent roads or bins to be picked up weekly, etc. My polite suggestion would be to emigrate.
DJ Judas | 10/12/2009 12:56
Epic
515 TSA Points | Member since: Aug 2008
I actually don’t want them
emigration is fast becoming a viable option.
DJ Judas | 10/12/2009 12:58
Epic
515 TSA Points | Member since: Aug 2008
Well I do like my bins empty and roads silky smooth though.
Kitch | 10/12/2009 13:53
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How is the NHS free? We pay for it. If it was private it would work out cheaper and we would get a better service.
cc_star | 10/12/2009 13:57
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NHS, like education isn’t free its hugely expensive
The roads are a bag of shit, a lot of ’second world’ countries have less pot-holes and cracks in the road than we do…
bins weekly? where do you live? practically the whole country is down to twice a month now isn’t it, and that’s when they’re not on strike.
Emigration is an amazing idea, and if my family situation were different it would be a hell of a lot more than an idea.
bunimomike | 10/12/2009 19:35
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Never lived anywhere where bins were anything other than once a week. Roads are good quality around here (Warwickshire) and weren’t terrible back in Wales either. NHS saved my father’s life. Education made sure my brothers and I turned out ok (that and good parenting). We’re doing ok. Sure, tax is wasted left, right and centre but the glib comment of “I don’t want to pay anything” is useless when living in the UK. I’ve had a couple of clients shift their families abroad, for tax reasons, but it’s not all roses where they are either.
Amphlett | 10/12/2009 12:52
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£6 a year equates to 50 pence a month. I think I can stretch to that.
However, I would really like to see the Government’s plans for rolling out Broadband. Oh wait, it’s not the Government’s plans we’re supporting here, it’s the large companies (BT, et al) who have moaned to the Government that the cost of upgrading networks is prohibitive and they have asked the Government to throw some cash at their projects. Presumably there will be some additional management around the wedge of cash the Government pump in to these project, and this level of management will require paying so they will take their cut from the wedge of cash.
So this begs the question, why don’t the big companies just add 50 pence a month to their bills, cut out the middle man, streamline the management overheads and just get on with the bl@@dy project?
GreenyGreenwell | 10/12/2009 12:55
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The government of this country have always taxed the things the populous uses the most. Tobacco and Alcohol, huge tax. Fuel, huge tax. Now the internet…it makes sense. At least this will aid the countrys progression into a digital age, theres a lot worse things they could be spending our tax money on. However, if i was convinced they would do a half decent job of the whole thing then i would probably be more eager to support the move.
Tuffcub | 10/12/2009 12:58
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Will it though? “Superfast”? They said w Meg was “Superfast” for 2012. 2 Meg is barely crawling, not superfast. It’s a load of utter tat.
kevatron400 | 10/12/2009 13:04
Don't call him Kevatron400.
1763 TSA Points | Member since: Dec 2008
Yeah, not exactly a SMART target is it? Superfast.
Fresh191 | 10/12/2009 12:59
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I think the ‘market lead’ approach is much better as plans go but to be honest they aint getting a penny of me until I start getting the speed Im paying for, I got 2.4mbps last night on a 10mbps connection, shocking.
If we are expected to pay even more money to these companies they should at least give us what we are paying for.
Fresh191 | 10/12/2009 13:02
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Also getting BB to remote parts of the country is a crock. My mother in law lives in Achmore (northern Scotland), which is pretty remote in terms of not being near anything! She gets faster BB than me and I live both 3miles from Newcastle city centre and 50ft from my exchange.
yobrenoops | 10/12/2009 13:07
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But whether your cabling is actually 50ft to the exchange is another story. Also, and believe it or not, you can be too close to the exchange. However that 10mb/s sounds odd, are you on Virgin? If so its a completely different network and exchange distance means nothing.
Tuffcub | 10/12/2009 13:04
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The obvious answer.. get mobnile broadband. It iwll be fast and cheap enough soon, wont need a land line.
yobrenoops | 10/12/2009 13:07
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Contention can and will become more of an issue there though. Look at the ping times and you won’t be gaming on it…
bunimomike | 10/12/2009 13:08
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Sadly, TC, it’s not the answer here, either, and for the very same reasons. Rural areas are last to get good quality 3G coverage. Also, don’t forget that plenty of mobile broadband is pure arse when it comes to pings.
Jas-n | 10/12/2009 13:11
Folding With TSA Co-ordinator.
1230 TSA Points | Member since: Aug 2008
Here’s an idea (sorry if it’s been mentioned her before), get those PM’s who’ve claimed unreasonable expenses to give back that money to the tax payer. Not directly, but instead cutting down on certain taxes until we’ve used the money that was taken from us.
yobrenoops | 10/12/2009 13:14
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I think if you claimed back all the expenses that would probably activate about 10 exchanges worth of broadband. Drop in the ocean when theres 5000 or so.
52pickup | 10/12/2009 13:28
Member
202 TSA Points | Member since: Oct 2009
No doubt the MP’s will demand a pay rise to cover this extra £6 tax. What next? Everytime you flush your toilet tax? Pardon me for breathing tax? C’mon…
Bankzy108 | 10/12/2009 13:43
Member
233 TSA Points | Member since: Sep 2009
Sneezing tax – I mean come on, don’t you agree? We spread germs around by sneezing and the such so why not? The tax that we pay for it could go towards looking for remedies and cures for epidemics for things such as swine flu when they actually break out into an….EPIDEMIC =|
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Kitch | 10/12/2009 13:57
Member
444 TSA Points | Member since: Aug 2008
You pay tax n your water bill. Oh and if the meters come in prepare to pay more!!
ghost5 | 10/12/2009 13:36
Member
698 TSA Points | Member since: Oct 2008
unfortunately the government is well behind the times with this one. as already mentioned other countries are years ahead of us in terms of speed and network capability. I also strongly believe that when we hit recession and unemployment the government should have spent money and got this upgrade happening sooner. yes it would have created more short term debt but it would have made more jobs and benefited the country later on.