Cloud gaming, a service kickstarted by Onlive but recently picked up by Sony, too. Except, maybe not, as the official company line from Sony appears to be that the traditional console is the way to go. “Whilst the remote storage and access of files is becoming increasingly common,” said Ray Maguire speaking to MCV, “when it comes to delivering an entertainment experience on par with the quality consumers have come to expect and that they demand, dedicated games consoles remain the only systems powerful enough to do this.”
Microsoft’s Neil Thompson remained a little more open minded than the Sony spokesperson. “I’m convinced the cloud will play a central role in the games industry of the future and already is today through services such as Xbox Live,” he said. “How you connect to the cloud and the services it can deliver across multiple devices is the exciting new world we are now entering. Our strategy is certainly to enable people to connect to their key entertainment content through innovative services that span across multiple devices.”
David Yarnton, from Nintendo, added that “whilst we can give people unique and ever-surprising experiences, we will continue to innovate in the way that we provide both hardware and content to them. At the moment our consoles, physical hardware and software provide the means for developers to do that.” Naturally, then, it’s the often more forward thinking Microsoft that seem most behind the concept of cloud gaming, with Sony and Nintendo dragging their heels a wee bit. Time will tell whether their thoughts will change.
cc_star | 05/01/2010 13:59
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Not sure if the comments are little more than stalling for time whilst they’re own product are still on the drawing-board rather than in a beta testing phase.
For some years to come, well at least to the time a successor is ready to be launched optical disks for large AAA games will be the norm, but beyond that time I hope Sony are prepared for the future, or else they could be on the sidelines looking in – like SEGA, Atari and many other former hardware manufacturers.
cc_star | 05/01/2010 14:07
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Missed a bit
And as for “dedicated games consoles remain the only systems powerful enough to do this”
Poppycock, the PS3 is barely powerful enough to run games at 720p30 (most of them drop frames, lose detail etc… etc…) never mind Crysis with all effects turned up to max at 720p60
I hope for Sony’s sake that this is just sabre-rattling because they’re behind the curve.
Einride | 05/01/2010 14:20
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Sony’s response annoyed me a bit. They come off with this “we know what’s best” attitude and just ignores elaborating on other uses of the “cloud” trying to boast their system instead.
MS at least admits that it will be an important part of (console) gaming as well. Again, not that surprising considering they’re already involved there on the software side.
Nintendo is the far out politician not really answering the question
cc_star | 05/01/2010 14:23
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It smacks a bit of the PS3 launch “the next-gen doesn’t start until we say so”
You’d have thought they’d have learnt their lesson about arrogance & bad press.
hazelam | 05/01/2010 15:17
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ms say they’re thinking about this because this is the way they’ve always been wanting to operate.
they’d just love a system where the user doesn’t actually have any content locally and everything is stored at their end so that the user has to keep paying to have access.
and they can have total control.
not saying sony are totally right but i agree with their point of view more than ms’s.
in fact i just can’t see onlive type systems taking over from consoles and pcs for a very long time.
RealBigGuns | 05/01/2010 18:45
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I doubt Sony is actually opposed to the idea of “cloud gaming”, I think you’re right; they’re just opposed to OnLive taking a bite out of their market share. It’s not a terrible ploy from a marketing perspective — I’m willing to bet a large contingent of gamers (read: kids and fanboys) will eat up Sony’s claims that “this won’t work” without even bothering to analyze OnLive’s service for themselves.
teflon | 07/01/2010 12:31
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I hope they aren’t planning to follow in OnLive’s footsteps, and that the “cloudsurf” thing is more an extension of PSN so that you can play a game as it’s downloading.
Im not a big fan of OnLive. Yes it’s a clever idea, but it’s way too dependant on having a very fast broadband connection than I like. Even then, there’s likely to be lag that is noticeable to many people. heck, people complained about Killzone 2 having input lag, so just imagine if the console is 500 miles away…
So for most, dedicated consoles will still be the way to go for at least the next 10 years. At which point broadband might be universally fast enough for OnLive…
Paranoimia | 05/01/2010 14:07
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“Naturally, then, it’s the often more forward thinking Microsoft that seem most behind the concept of cloud gaming, with Sony and Nintendo dragging their heels a wee bit. Time will tell whether their thoughts will change.”
Given that Sony have already trademarked ‘PlayStation Cloud’ and ‘CloudSurfing’, and that Naughty Dog refer to ‘the cloud’ in the Uncharted 2 extras, I’d say they’re already seriously looking into it. I’m not sure how that can be construed as ‘dragging their heels.’
I agree with cc_star – Sony’s statement seems more to me like they’re saying “we’re working on our own solution and not ready to comment on it just yet”, rather than “we’re not interested.”
Bilbo_bobbins | 05/01/2010 14:10
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Just can’t see Onlive working to be honest.
cc_star | 05/01/2010 14:12
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Think it works technically, but whether they get the pricing and marketing right and people buy into it is a different matter.
waddo_89 | 05/01/2010 14:16
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And the UK will need to get its arse in gear with regards to broadband speeds.
Einride | 05/01/2010 14:31
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Technically, yes. Working as intended (and marketed!), however? Not a chance.
There’s network latency and processing latency to consider (the picture and audio needs to be encoded to whatever protocol they’re going to use). Even using massive dedicated hardware for this, there will be a latency.
The data to and from the data center can’t go any faster than the signal being sent, which is via copper and fibre with routers in between, all adding a delay to it.
And every millisecond used is getting you closer to that limit where people considers it “unplayable”.
cc_star | 05/01/2010 14:35
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If you’ve got 48mins spare watch their presentation, do you think they haven’t thought of everything though?
hazelam | 05/01/2010 15:20
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they can’t think of everything, don’t be surprised if the whole thing collapses within hours of the final launch, these kind of things always do, they’ve planned for many contingencies, but there are simply way too many things that can go wrong.
and for a service that would be a lag sensitive as onlive, unlike most mmos where you could still play albeit with difficulty even with a couple of seconds lag, even minor issues could be crippling.
Einride | 05/01/2010 14:15
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I’m extremely sceptical about OnLive simply because of the laws of physics. Unless you’re pretty much sitting on their data centers, input lag will be a showstopper, atleast for games requiring fast input from players (pretty much any game).
As for using the “cloud” for other services and solutions however, it’s already here. I recently purchased Torchlight from Steam, and it syncs my game saves using SteamCloud (or whatever they call it). It’s a great feature, and one I’m expecting from both Sony and MS sooner rather than later. Yes, I know Steam have probably had it for a while, but Torchlight is the first PC game I’ve played in years.
Also seeing MS behind this concept more than the other two is no surprise, they are a major (major!) software company after all.
cc_star | 05/01/2010 14:20
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Lag (and all other technical objections like random internet routing and everything else people can think of) has been overcome providing you’re within 1000 miles of the data centre.
If it was perceptually any different from a console/computer sitting in your living room they wouldn’t have a product.
Severn2j | 05/01/2010 14:42
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My problem with this is how have they solved it? Seriously, no noticeable lag if you’re within 1000 miles of the datacentre? They must have solved some pretty fundamental network issues to have achieved that with even basic network traffic, let alone the amount of data proposed here.. OTOH, like you say if they havent, then they dot have a product. Until I see it in action, in a live environment, I remain skeptical..
Einride | 05/01/2010 14:44
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Being 1609 km away from the data center means the signal takes 5 ms from you to the data center. That’s at light speed, no other delays in between.
So the “input lag” will be 5 ms each way, 10 ms in total. 10 ms before an input you give reflects on your monitor. And this is in _theory_, ignoring any other delay, which won’t happen.
People complain about LCD-displays and input lag in the ~25 ms range. If this product isn’t going to be perceptually different from a console/computer, the total lag can’t be much higher than this for most types of games.
Not impossible, no. Perceptually different from a console/computer? I’d say so.
I’ll be waiting for them to prove me wrong. If they do, great, it’ll probably be an amazing service.
cc_star | 05/01/2010 14:47
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They have, its all detailed in their presentation.
Rather then having a 100gigbit backbone connection to their datacentre, they have 10×10gigabit connections from 10 different providers, this solves the problem of random internet routing meaning you’re always connected to the data centre by the shortest possible distance this is also solves various other problems.
We’ll have to wait and see though, especially given the UK’s largely copper infrastructure
Lanselta | 05/01/2010 14:31
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Everything ive seen and heard about Onlive sounds fantastic, and there are suggestions the technicalities have been overcome. Has anyone here actually spoken to any of the US beta testers, or are they all NDA’d up? (Hey Nofi
) If all the press IS true, and Onlive IS seemless, sign me up right now, cause its an excellent buisness model for everyone, (but Activision it seems) and the services we can get from it are a whole new world of awesomness. But being the cynic i am, i think we are being fed a bit of blue sky.
3shirts | 05/01/2010 14:35
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To be fair, they are right in the sense that, AT THE MOMENT, home consoles/computers are the only way to deliver fast, responsive HD gaming.
Give it a year or so and the story will be different so I agree that they appear a little arrogant but you can see why they don’t want to suggest cloud gaming is a good idea until they have a rival product in the public conciousness
carlosfilippsen | 05/01/2010 14:43
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I think Onlive will work. If they get pricing and marketing right a lot of people will buy in to it.
stonyk | 05/01/2010 15:31
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Can someone please tell me (especially if I’m very wrong) is this to be a service where you pay-per-play? If it is then no matter how good the technology it’ll never work. Or I hope to god it doesn’t!
cc_star | 05/01/2010 15:34
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In their previous presentation they have talked about several payment options – free access includes betas and all demos, pay-per-hour/week/month and all-inclusive all you can eat, they’ve also talked about ad-supported gaming.
Basically something for everyone – if the price-point is correct
stonyk | 05/01/2010 15:52
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Don’t think this’ll work for me. I play games very sporadically. I could play solidly for a month (Like when I picked up MF2) then not play again for 6 months. Paying a monthly subscription is not viable.
If you have to pay for the amount of time you play then you are punished for being addicted.
The only way this will work is if it is cheaper than current prices (I’ve only paid £36 for games this year so far (which comprised of £26 modern warfare 2, £5 mirrors edge, £5 street fighter 4).
bunimomike | 05/01/2010 15:34
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At the least, they’re trying to take the edge of the potential situation on the horizon because they want us to concentrate on the here and now. However, they’re obviously exceedingly aware of things like cloud-gaming and undoubtedly have to prepare (or at least R&D a shedload) to see if there’s an inevitability to it all. The big 3 word things differently but they’re all ultimately in the same boat with positioning themselves in the best possible fashion.
Verminox | 05/01/2010 16:10
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ISP’s are barely coping at the moment with the number of people. Will be along time until Onlive and being able to stream games across the internet.
amiga_dude | 05/01/2010 16:37
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The problem with OnLive is if there go belly up then you have lost all your games. Rember they want you subscibe to them and also buy games that you play on OnLive. So if there is no OnLive you have NO games but have lost LOT money on games.
Think about it, it dosn’t make good sence.
skibadee | 05/01/2010 16:59
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not this again I will stick with Sony on this.
deepmenace | 05/01/2010 21:57
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this is still pie in the sky for me.
plenty of pc gamers still stick to wired mice due to the minuscule lag in wireless ones. anyone up for a retrograde step in our game playing experience. not me cheers.
what about if a housemate kicks off a torrent? even a poorly seeded one with few connections visibly affects anything web-connected.
this tech is a LONG way off IRL i reckon.
NavahoGL | 06/01/2010 09:09
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This stuff is like full body scans on airports. Sounds awesome; but currently just “hot air”…
Current technology is not powerful enough — it simply can not work. Not with the Internet’s current infrastructure: it’s too slow and TCP/IP itself has design issues that shall make secure and stable operation impossible.
The theoretical 5ms latency is exactly that: theoretical.
In practice, there shall be an encryption layer as well (we don’t want people to cheat)… Also, any switches and routers along the way can interrupt the connection any time they see fit because QoS tells them to prioritize other connections.
This technology is still in very young; give it a another decade…
Then, perhaps, we’re back to the old mainframe and thin client concept…