Lunchtime Discussion: Cross Genre
Mix and matching.
Published: 12:00, 12/10/2010 by Kris [Halbpro].
44Labels are always useful when talking about anything, they’re a convenient shorthand that stops conversations becoming tedious and pretty silly. However they can also be overly restrictive when trying to talk about something new or different, and that’s why I want to talk about genre definitions today.
Genre labels are one of those labels that become useful when you’re trying to talk about any form of entertainment, things tend to fall into convenient brackets that allow us to easily talk about them. A game is an FPS or an RPG or a platformer, but are they ever really that simple.
Of course back if you look back fifteen or twenty years it really was that simple, games on the NES or the Master System generally were pure platformers or RPGs. Games were great, but in general they weren’t particularly deep or complex. With that lack of complexity it was easy for a game to fit neatly into a single genre, but with the vastly increased complexity in modern gaming is it ever really that simple any more?
There are certainly still some games that have a level of simplicity that allows them to fit neatly into one genre, and there are a few genres like FPS that have remained pretty free from mixing. However look at games like Uncharted, how do you describe that as a single genre? Is it an action puzzler? A cover based shooter? It’s clear that it doesn’t really fit into any single definition and you’re going to have to mix things up to get a label that even begins to describe things.
What about games like Spider-Man: Shattered Dimensions where gameplay changes as you move through the game? Not only does the game not fit neatly into one genre, but the genres it fits into shifts as you move through the game.
I suppose the real question here is which way is better? Does a game that fits distinctly into one genre feel more tight and focused? Or does it actually feel a bit boring and too tightly constrained? Does blending together concepts from multiple genres produce stellar results or do they feel a bit all over the place? Are there some genres that really shouldn’t be mixed?
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12/10/2010 at 12:04
Member since: Forever
Awesome discussion,
I like games which add variety by adding different gameplay styles into the mix, but developers are walking a thin line (perhaps impossibly thin) because a mix of two genres could appeal to no one rather than 2 sets of fans.
Using Mirrors Edge & Brutal Legend as an example. The mix of FPS & platformer was just OK, it was never great, the same with Brutal Legend which was a mix of third person and RTS
Trying to be a jack of all trades means you’re a master of none, you’re better off doing one thing as well as you can, rather than 2 things not so well.
12/10/2010 at 12:11
Member since: Aug 2008
While I really enjoyed Brutal Legends, the RTS sections were a bad idea. They weren’t terrible but RTS is just one of those genres that needs depth and dedication. Since Brutal Legends had neither it appealed, like you say, to neither RTS fans nor third person adventure fans.
12/10/2010 at 12:08
Member since: Aug 2008
Uncharted was a very rare gem in that it mixed several genres seamlessly and successfully.
It is not easy to do that which is why many games that try to be diverse, end up being simply inconsistent. How many FPS or TPS games shoehorn in a driving section which is crap?
12/10/2010 at 13:46
Member since: May 2009
Although I’m a racing fan I think the racing elements of ‘Red Dead Redemption’ and ‘Just Cause 2′ were totally pointless and added nothing to the games.
12/10/2010 at 12:16
Member since: Jan 2009
Fallout 3 comes to mind when I see this discussion. It tried to mix FPS, TPS, stealth, survival horror and RPG in all the one game. In terms of the RPG, stealth parts and the survival horror when you’re in the metro tunnels or Dunwich with limited ammo worked, but the shooting in Fallout 3 at times just didn’t work, and was often fustrating in the worst case senario.
12/10/2010 at 12:26
Member since: Aug 2008
Typically, I’ve noticed if a game sticks to one genre it is judged as being generic, repetitive and lacking in innovation.
12/10/2010 at 18:20
Member since: Dec 2008
Unless it is as good as Killzone 2. If innovation can’t be reached games whould try to pick the best parts of a genre and make one game from that. Killzone 2 can hardly be called original, but it blended everything together so well that you get the best experience by playing exactly that game
12/10/2010 at 12:43
Member since: Jul 2009
Genres are important for us to clarify and pigeon-hole such games but they are essential for marketing and how to advertise any given title. FPS fans will sit up and take notice when people talk about new FPS games. Action-adventure fans will do the same and so on and so forth. However, when a game lurches through genres it can muddy the marketing somewhat, even if the game scores well regardless. Thankfully, titles like Uncharted 2 show that it can be done extremely well although how they went about it was easily the best way. Create a gaming experience and let it bridge genres naturally as the plot unfolds. Don’t bring a different genre into the mix just because you think your game is a little generic. That’s not the way to do it as it’ll usually feel like it’s been grafted on as an afterthought (Cole’s scar on the new Cole in inFamous, anyone?).
For my money, developers should always come up with the game first then let it absorb the genres it requires to tell the story (no matter how simple or complex the idea is). Don’t stick to one genre just because you think it should or you have done in the past. That’s exactly how to end up with an “also ran”.
12/10/2010 at 12:50
Member since: Sep 2010
I completely agree with this. Often, the simplest of games turn out to be the most fun and rewarding even in the current gaming environment of over-the-top all-in-one games.
However, complex genre crossing games also can be done well if done right. Your comment basically says it all and I’ll leave it at that. Good job (:
12/10/2010 at 12:57
Member since: Forever
I don’t think Uncharted2 bridged genres too well at all.
It was a third-person shooter (sitting firmly in the sub genre of cover based shooter)… the platforming was basic and the puzzling non-existent.
A fan of platformers isn’t going to like it, like-wise a fan of puzzlers certainly won’t either.
It was however a great game, but for me it didn’t bridge genres as well as the old Tomb Raiders did where puzzling was a necessity and was as much part of the game as it was anything else.
12/10/2010 at 13:24
Member since: Forever
I love platformers, yet I liked the Uncharted series.
12/10/2010 at 13:27
Member since: Forever
Well I love platformers, but if you don’t like shooters you’re not going to get very far in Uncharted2
12/10/2010 at 13:46
Member since: Mar 2009
I would say that Uncharted2 (and games of that ilk like Tomb Raider, Infamous) are “explore-em-ups”! I heard that phrase years ago, and I quite like it (it still tickles me today!).
12/10/2010 at 13:52
Member since: Jul 2009
In a way, cc, we’re now into the mechanics of the game (which is very important in the example you use). You wouldn’t want someone coming into UC2 with a “oh, it’ll be as easy as aiming in Tomb Raider” or there’ll be a clutch of unhappy bunnies. You almost need to call it an action-adventure-3rd-person shooter. Whereas, Tomb Raider was far more of a puzzle adventure with some shooting. Ultimately, it’s very cumbersome to use such explanations and hopefully we’ll see a constant dilution of genres so we realise we shouldn’t put too much emphasis on such things and just look to each game on its own individual merit as oppose to a class it might need to be slotted into.
12/10/2010 at 13:24
Member since: Oct 2008
One of the best examples of Genre mash I can think of is GTA San Andreas, with flight sim elements, pilotwings-esque rocket pack bits, territory control, driving, shooting, collecting etc.
At least game sub-genres haven’t been given names like dance music genres, whenever there is a sound that treads slightly new ground, a new genre arrives, there are about a million variations on house in the UK. I do think it’s restricted to Europe though, the Americans classify pretty much any dance music as Electronica.
12/10/2010 at 13:34
Member since: Oct 2008
Oh yeah, I forgot the rhythm based dancing bit on the Los Santos beach!
12/10/2010 at 20:50
Member since: Aug 2008
Regarding music, the biggest problem is that genres seem to be regarded as eras now. When I first heard someone describe a track as ‘bassline’ I was like “WTF, it’s garage, just like the stuff from the late 90′s” but because garage is associated with that era, people don’t want to use it to describe anything new.
12/10/2010 at 15:59
Member since: Jul 2009
Genre switching is at its worst when developers make a half hearted stab at adding a bit of ‘variety’ to a game by giving us something like a driving level in the middle of a shooter – Gears of War 2′s buggy level is one that springs to mind, as is the snowmobile section of MW2.
I think that Uncharted made a pretty decent job of combining different genres as they all fit in with the concept of the game. Saying that, it was originally billed as an adventure/puzzle game, but was more of a cover based shooter. Uncharted 2 was more honest in its approach by adding the online multiplayer contests.
As mentioned, some games are marked down for lacking variety, so is it the gaming media to blame for urging developers to stray from the main theme of a game?
12/10/2010 at 18:10
Member since: Aug 2009
Borderlands is a great game combining FPS with a RPG
12/10/2010 at 20:51
Member since: Aug 2008
Loads of FPS games have Rocket Propelled Grenades ;)
12/10/2010 at 20:19
Member since: Feb 2010
Yeah, I hate it when people call Uncharted an adventure game when it’s clearly an action-adventure.