Sunday Thoughts: Kinect
Rambling on the camera
Published: 12:30, 07/11/2010 by Kris [Halbpro].
28So Kinect is finally out for public consumption. Reviews and opinions are still flooding the internet, and it’ll be a while before the dust settles and we start to hear some more concrete details on the long term potential of the system but the initial reaction seems to be pretty positive. Sadly we haven’t got our hands on Kinect or its various games yet, but I have to say that what I’ve seen is actually impressing me.
I’m certainly not going to pass any sort of formal opinion on Kinect and its games without actually playing the system. That would be frankly ridiculous and I’d feel pretty guilty about doing so. Informally the reviews and videos I’m seeing have me hopeful. I mean I was fairly on board for Dance Central back at the Eurogamer Expo (and yes, that’s probably the hundredth time that article’s been linked to), but seeing the general reaction for the game actually has me more excited than I was before.
I don’t really know why I’m that excited about the ability to dance to a camera. I don’t like actual dancing, mostly because I have zero sense of rhythm. You can actually tell I have a complete lack of rhythm if you watch the Dance Central video linked above, I look incredibly stiff and uncomfortable while playing it.
The thing is despite that it’s a lot of fun to play, and the more I see it the more fun it looks. It’s the same as Guitar Hero, before that launched I doubt many people would be excited by the prospect of playing a plastic instrument. I can actually remember thinking the whole thing was a little silly before I stayed at a friend’s house and tried it out. I was pretty much instantly hooked on the series, and Dance Central has the same effect. Sure it seems ridiculous from the outside, but once you actually have a go it digs its hooks in and won’t let go.
YourShape is second on my list of wants for Kinect. Yes it’s a fitness title, and wanting one of those may well lose me a little respect from my more “hardcore” friends. Aside from the fact that it looks entertaining and that it’d probably encourage me to exercise a lot more if I had access to a virtual trainer in my front room, the menus just look insanely cool. That does seem like a fairly stupid reason for wanting the game, but one of the things everyone talks about with Kinect is the “Minority Report” menus; YourShape comes the closest to this and puts the default Microsoft menus to shame.
That does actually seem to be one of the issues with Kinect’s launch, other developers are using Kinect better than Microsoft’s first party studios. That’s frankly bizzare, and not something you’d expect to see. When you look at a console’s launch line-up it tends to be the first party developers that dominate, at least in terms of technical quality.
Kinect seems to turn this notion on its head, with second and third party developers bringing out titles that just work better. Not only do they seem to have better accuracy, but from what I’ve seen and played Microsoft have basically chosen the worst possible implementation for menus. We’ve already seen a few varying menu systems, and most of them seem to work better than what Microsoft have selected.
So am I hopeful for Kinect? Yes really. I’d love to have it sitting in my front room to try out in a ‘real’ environment and to try in more than short bursts. I have no idea whether it’ll be fun to use for a whole day, or even a session that lasts a few hours. Will it be fun in a year or two from now? These are the questions I want answers to, and the questions that’ll probably take a while to get any real thoughts on. Even just the two games I’ve mentioned have me very tempted to part with what little spare cash I have, but without answers to those questions it becomes much harder to justify.
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07/11/2010 at 12:36
Member since: Jul 2009
Kinect has potential but if the hardware creates a very real sense of limitation then it’s going to be hard to escape from the dumbed down, diluted gaming that we’ve seen so far. If MS manage to batten down the worries that many of us have seen then there’s every reason why they can’t create some lovely titles even if there’s the chance that only 10% of them appeal to hardcore gamers.
When it comes down to it, MS have a good console for hardcore gamers already so this is about them expanding their customer-base and it may well do a great job. For now (and for me) the jury is most definitely out.
07/11/2010 at 12:42
Member since: Oct 2010
The main problem for Kinect is that not many Europeans have 8 feet clear in front of their TV – fine for Americans, whose houses tend to be a lot larger, but have Microsoft actually surveyed how many people in the EU have space for their gadget?
I know a friend who owns an Xbox 360, but his TV room can only be about 5 feet from wall to wall. No Kinnection for him then.
07/11/2010 at 12:42
Member since: Mar 2009
You can have one player in 5 feet of space, 8 feet is for two people.
07/11/2010 at 12:45
Member since: Jan 2009
But that just means his mates won’t be able to play two-player with Kinect then.
07/11/2010 at 12:52
Member since: Mar 2009
No that’s very true, but at least they can play it.
07/11/2010 at 15:02
Member since: Oct 2010
I know, but I think Kinect’s target audience will surely want to play it two player. I know about five people who own a Wii, and they all have a second controller (at least).
07/11/2010 at 17:36
Member since: Dec 2008
But that kid of blows MS’s big “You can have four players for £120″ arguement out the water. You cant. You need Kinect + 8ft of space. You dont need 8ft od space for 2 Moves or 2 Wiis
07/11/2010 at 17:41
Member since: Oct 2010
Agreed.
07/11/2010 at 18:02
Member since: Forever
Nobody has less than 8ft of space, unless its in a bedroom and the beds in the way, pretty sure the smallest main room’s I’ve seen are around 12ft, minus 3ft for the sofa.
Seems like people making an issue out of nothing
07/11/2010 at 23:45
Member since: Jan 2009
This is a rather good relevant read. http://www.joystiq.com/2010/11/04/kinect-vs-our-living-rooms-a-survey/
08/11/2010 at 01:25
Member since: Feb 2009
I don’t have 8ft of space in front of the TV in my living room. I can just about lie down in the space (which give me just under 6ft). 4 player with Move and the Wii has also been difficult but I can manage 2 player without an issue.
I might manage 8ft of space if I had a ultra minimalist room but that just isn’t workable as I’d only manage to get 2 seats in the room.
07/11/2010 at 12:42
Member since: Jan 2009
It all boils down to the next wave of Kinect games. If they deliver, kinect will hold out. B
07/11/2010 at 12:43
Member since: Jan 2009
But if they don’t perform any better than the current crop, then it’s hstory. And how the hell did my comment get cut in half?
07/11/2010 at 12:45
Member since: Aug 2008
From what I’ve read, it’s a bit of a joke. Your position, clothes, even wearing glasses can stop it recognising you, rendering it essentially useless.
Then there’s the much-touted gesture and motion control which, it turns out, don’t actually work with everything, only in certain areas/applications. For example, according to one review (I think it was IGN, but not sure) you can’t use them while watching a DVD or playing music, only when watching movies from the Zune store.
It strikes me as a good idea, suffering from some seriously half-assed implementation.
07/11/2010 at 12:46
Member since: Aug 2008
Oh,and not forgetting large amounts of lag, and even occasional complete failure to recognise gestures.
07/11/2010 at 12:47
Member since: Mar 2009
The inability to use voice controls in DVD playback is idiotic.
07/11/2010 at 12:47
Member since: Jul 2009
Fascinating video on YouTube showing Kinect with night vision. You can see the dot-array it throws out. It also makes sense why it’s not that accurate if you think about the distances between any two neighbouring dots.
Linky Slink
07/11/2010 at 12:51
Member since: Mar 2009
Thanks! I’d heard about people doing this (actually using the Nightvision Goggles from MW2), but hadn’t seen what it actually looks like. Super cool, actually looks kinda pretty.
07/11/2010 at 12:54
Member since: Jan 2009
Well that’s interesting. Kinect could also be used for red dot sights.
07/11/2010 at 13:13
Member since: Aug 2009
I saw kinects yesterday live. The dance moves looked really lame!
the ps move moves were alot better
07/11/2010 at 13:57
Member since: Apr 2010
There has been a lot of talk about lag, and the games simply not working, and all the demonstrations being horrible, but ultimately the games are getting good reviews. Better reviews than a lot of the Move titles. While hype and profile is going to account for some of that, there is obviously functional hardware there that has some fun applications. Whether or not these games are for me is another matter (which at the moment, they are not), so Kinect definitely isn’t an essential purchase for me. I think it’s going to do very well though, and maybe someday I might be tempted once the game library has expanded.
07/11/2010 at 14:20
Member since: Forever
i think a big problem is literally going to be that the a* dev teams arent going to know what to do with it.
i expect the very best games will simply be fun but shallow diversions. which is cool for some but not for others.
07/11/2010 at 14:50
Member since: Forever
Devs are (generally speaking) creative geniuses, given a 2-3 year development cycle, the things they’ll be able to do with Kinect & Move will be amazing. For both systems the games on the market only look like 9-12m development cycles… the equivalent of the crappy movie ports, we’re all too used to.
I wonder if this is why the launch titles for both systems are what some people would call diluted gaming experiences. This is why the second wave of titles is so important, on the Move side we have Sorcery (maybe, if its not been delayed) and on Kinect we haven’t seen the titles yet, but we’re told that devs are working on Kinect in core ‘pad controlled’ games and Suda 51 have this lined up http://www.thesixthaxis.com/2010/09/16/suda-51-announces-kinect-exclusive/ whatever it is, but it certainly looks interesting.
Also, the hardware will continually receive FW updates enhancing its ability and optimising processing time along with freeing up CPU cycles.
Both system will be amazing next year – and we may even have a Wii2/WiiHD to add to that as well.
07/11/2010 at 14:39
Member since: Forever
Try it for 10mins at a tradeshow or in a shop window or whatever… woah that’s crap, I can’t play that, quick take a vid on a shitty mobile phone and upload it to YouTube
Try it out in your own house and get to grips with it and it seems broadly positive, pretty sure that will only improve with the 2nd wave of games too, especially now the launch lineup Kinect exclusive games are out the way and developers are looking to integrate Kinect into ‘core’ joypad games.
Can’t see space being an issue, as a small room is probably 12ft across, lose 1ft for the TV and 3ft for a sofa on the opposite side and your still left with plenty of space in the middle, barring moving a coffee table like people do with Wii Bowling. Bedroom’s are a different proposition though and I can’t see it working to well in thr bedroom which is probably why MS have made sure there’s plenty of family titles in the launch lineup
Looking an idiot:
Can’t see anyone looking more of an idiot than mentioned in the article playing plastic guitars, playing Wii Bowling or SingStar. Moving to the camera seems slightly less embarassing than dual wielding something from an Ann Summers catalogue, so I can’t see that being a barrier to adoption either.
The only thing stopping me getting one is my lack of 360… and funds :(
07/11/2010 at 14:46
Member since: Mar 2009
Great point about getting used to it. I’m pretty sure I found it hard to use the Wii and Move on my first go, had to get used to it.
You can actually see the Giant Bomb crew getting used to it as they progress through their various quick looks.
07/11/2010 at 14:55
Member since: Forever
The Giant Bomb vids are actually the best Kinect vids on the internet, you can see them really giving it a good going over and playing it in pretty much the way I would.
07/11/2010 at 15:06
Member since: Mar 2009
I know, plus the green screen is clearly the best way of doing it.
07/11/2010 at 15:18
Member since: Forever
Just watching them doing horseriding in Ubisoft’s Motion Sports and one of them nailed it, but the other kept getting the timing wrong for going over the jumps… If that was a general YouTube vid it would be slagged off as Kinect being shit, not the fact it was the guy either not used to the game, the control method or both, this is why I tire of the internet and bandwagon jumpers so easily. It’s not like people slag off GT5 with the million YouTube clips that show people spinning the vehicle on every bend because they’re not used to sim-handling, but its ok to apply double standards to something because it suits them or their agenda.
Sure there’s some issues with the launch titles, but show me a launch title for anything, ever that hasn’t had issues, and I presume that’s because of the strict deadline and probably shorter dev time
07/11/2010 at 15:11
Member since: Feb 2010
This comment is hidden.
07/11/2010 at 15:14
Member since: Oct 2010
:Squeak: (Compare the Meerkat advert :)