In an interview with gamasutra (via EG), Frontier boss David Braben has spoken out about pre-owned games, saying that their popularity is affecting single player titles.
“The real problem when you think about it brutally,” he said, “if you look at just core gamer games, pre-owned has really killed core games. In some cases, it’s killed them dead.”
“I won’t buy a preowned game out of principle,” he added.
Braben claims he knows publishers who have canned single player games because “most shops won’t reorder stock after initial release, because they rely on the churn from the resales.”
“It’s killing single player games in particular,” he continues, “because they will get pre-owned, and it means your day one sales are it, making them super high risk. I mean, the idea of a game selling out used to be a good thing, but nowadays, those people who buy it on day one may well finish it and return it.”
He goes on to say that if gamers didn’t sell their games, the prices of games in general would fall. That seems a little backwards to me: if games were cheaper, perhaps fewer gamers would feel the need to trade them in to buy new ones.
“Prices would have come down long ago if the industry was getting a share of the resells,” he says.
“Developers and publishers need that revenue to be able to keep doing high production value games, and so we keep seeing fewer and fewer of them,” he said.
It’s true certain aspects of the industry is struggling – see: GAME – but some single player titles like Skyrim show that it’s not a thought process that necessarily applies to every ‘core’ title. Braben’s probably on the ball, though, and no doubt knows more about games in development than the likes of you and I.
It’s a great interview.
wonkey-willy
crock and shit!
rinsing me for 40 pounds and all i get is 4hrs of gaming…
no incentive to buy it new…fleabay for me..
iAvernus
What’s hurting SP games is the short campaign/ story. Why play $60 for 4-5 hours worth of play?
Sad Panda
Spot on. I bought Force Unleashed 2 on day of release, I beat it that same day in a little under 4 hours. Games like this are bound to be traded in. What all of these so called experts fail to realise is that if the game is good enough, people will hang on to it.
It also seems to be ignored that the majority of trade ins are to help fund the purchase of new games. Have none of these people read the story of the golden goose?
As for dropping prices, they’re headed in the other direction with games like FIFA going for £45 6 months after release and they have a ripoff/online pass!
skibadee
what a load of rubbish.
hazelam
you know, i expected better from this guy.
i thought he was about more than the typical industry greed.
the guy who helped develop the 25 pound computer on a card with the aim of getting one to every kid in every school, now seems to think the games industry deserve something they have absolutely no right to.
you could argue for multiplayer there’s a case, though i will not support games that have online passes.
but for a single player game, where the developers and publishers have no further part, asking for a cut of any resales of that copy is just ridiculous.
do people give a cut to whoever built their house when they sell it on?
do people give book publishers a cut when they sell their books?
or cds? movies?
anything?
in fact i can’t think of any other product where that happens.
you know why?
because they’ve got no right to.
they made the product, they got paid for it, that’s the end of their involvement.
that’s what the law says.
if they’re no longer doing any work and they’re not providing an ongoing service then why should they get paid again?
if the games are getting to expensive to make, then they need to be more efficient, not crying out for something they have no right to.
look at movies, they regularly cost a couple of hundred million to make, the big blockbusters anyway, and even something like that adam sandler movie where he played twins apparently cost something like 80 million to make, god knows why though.
yet the movie industry isn’t getting a cut of preowned sales.
so the whole too expensive thing is irrelevant.
that’s their problem, not ours.
Bodachi
The movie industry has a multi-tiered release system where as games are released and that is pretty much it. So you can’t really compare the two.
KeRaSh
This. With movies they can make money through cinemas, movie rentals and DVD & Blu Ray sales. With games you get one chance and that’s it.
Bodachi
As movie syndication on TV.
KeRaSh
I knew I missed something! :)
hazelam
and movies don’t have dlc.
not every movie comes has a corresponding guide book.
then there’s action figures, book, comics, clothing, toys, there’s all manner of tie in merchandise these days.
the point is pointing at how much things cost to make as a reason why they should get a cut of preowned sales is a ludicrous argument.
if they’re spending too much making the games, that’s their problem to sort out, be more efficient, don’t pay dick sports star to have their adulterous mugs on the front cover.
stuff like that, don’t go after something you have no right to.
they say preowned is akin to piracy, i say what they’re trying to do is more like piracy.
i mean, i sell or buy a preowned game, i’m just exercising my legal right to transfer ownership of my own property.
they go after a cut of that money and they’re trying to take what they have no legal or moral claim to.
which is more akin to theft?
Grey_Ghost13
Good arguments hazelam, I agree with you but one thing I want to add and balance the arguement is where David B is highlighting the fact that the game retailers are not restocking as they rely on the trade ins from initial releases. If true this could be bad for the publishers, is this a factor in why publishers are dropping Game?
With the resale of the other products you mentioned you are right that the initial “owner/developer/constructor” has no right to the resale as they have finished with the product when sold.
But with games the resales are going through a key factor of the sales process, the games retailers. And I do believe that some portion of the trade in profits should go back to publishers. It would make sense to keep up a good relationship with them. But if a game is sold in any other means they should not recieve any of the profit, it’s outside of the key sales process. And this would then give the seller choice too.
I do belive that David B is missing some key factors in his argument, quality of the single player campaign is a key factor to why single player games are failing, as mentioned in many of the comments. And backed up by the number of titles with longer single player campaigns that are doing well.
And as pointed out in the comments too, the majority of titles traded in are for new releases. And what he needs to realise is that again this is a retailer issue, they are giving the consumer these incentives, the number of deals you can see where you can get a new release for a seriously knocked down price if you trade in a game that is only a couple of weeks old is silly. David B it’s the retailers not consumers at fault.
A consumer will always strive for the best deal. A retailer will always try to give the best deal availible that maximises their profit. Publishers and retailers need to work together more to tackle the issue of trade-ins.
hazelam
if the stores are the issue, they need to try to work out some deal with the stores, that doesn’t involve taking away my rights.
though legally the stores would be under no obligation to give them a cut.
hunterstryfe
why would publishers just drop GAME for that? Amazon sells pre-owned too. So does a company called Grainger Games (has around 60 UK stores). Rentals from lovefilm must really hurt sales. Lovefilm simply pay an increased price from the games multiplied by the amount of games they bought, then thats it as far as the publishers involvement also
gaffers101
Good for you Mr Braben, on having enough money in the bank to be able to refuse to buy pre-owned games on principle. Not everyone is in this position.
jikomanzoku
and having a house large enough to store the ever expanding collection of games, he’s been around a while, he either doesn’t play many games or his west wing is mainly shelves. Assuming of course he doesn’t sell the weaker titles when he’s done with them.
TRiLoGY
Off Topic, but can we have Elite IV Mr Braben :)
hazelam
i said to myself, that the next developer/publisher that comes along bleating about how the preowned market is bad for the industry would go on my list.
i thought it would be ea though, and they’re already on the list.
it’s not a hit list or anything, i call it my never buy new list.
my hit list is a whole different matter.
i mean, uhm, what hit list?
i don’t have a hit list, who are you?
>_>
hunterstryfe
(read above) you never read this comment – it does not exist
jikomanzoku
I used to like Braben. Now I think he’s a prick. Prices would not have come down long ago, to even suggest it is a lie Mr Braben. And as for the suggestion that we are seeing fewer and fewer high production value titles that is just baseless nonsense, look at last years release schedule – yeah, dull wasn’t it eh Braben?
If I finish a book, watch a blu-ray or listen to a cd and decide it aint worth keeping – I’ll sell it, along with games I feel similarly about. It’s my right and you can kiss my arse.
I buy at least one new 40 quid game a month and often a couple of preowned/cheap 1st hand titles that just weren’t of sufficient interest for me to pay top dollar.
As Hazel said earlier in the post, if you can’t make games on budget and profitably, then put your own house in order and stop whining about the customers.
Now, get on with Elite 4, keep your greedy mouth shut and if it’s good enough and you don’t alienate me further with this drivel, I and most other people who buy it day one will be playing it forever, so you’ll have naught to fear.
Bladesteel
It’s amazing how many in the gaming industry that doesn’t grasp what their customers are thinking. People trade in games because they are done with them, either because they are short with no lasting appeal, or because they discover they suck. Start making good games, that either take a while to finish or are worth playing more than once and it will work just fine. coughelitecough
jikomanzoku
Terrible cough you have there, you should take something for it. I find EVE online from beechams helps.
The Lone Steven
Really? As Skyrim, a single player RPG, sold well. If Preowned was killing off SP games, then i doubt that Bethesade would have spent the past few years developing it.
No, what is hurting SP games is the short length and the tacked on MP which seems to happen a lot in the FPS genre. Plus, he does realise that without preowned, a lot of gamers won’t buy a game new as a lot of funds are raised via trading it.
What if i spend £40 for a game that lasts 2 hours? I would want my cash back and would trade it in if i couldn’t get it in. Also, FF seems to have done pretty well since the rise of Preowned and i don’t see Square canning it.
If you want people to buy your Single Player game, make it good and have a decent length as well as avoiding online passes as that tends to annoy a lot of gamers.