Xbox LIVE’s Stephen Tolouse has been blogging about his thoughts on people using Swastika logos on CoD: Black Ops. Those who do will feel the almighty blow of the ban hammer:
“Tonight I got asked one of those questions that only my job can apparently engender, namely “Hey, I’m not a genocidal hater of Jews but I really love the design of the swastika because its actually used by numerous religions, can I use it as my Call Of Duty: Black Ops logo? SWASTIKAS ARE AWESOME.No really, someone asked me this as a serious question on twitter. So I of course replied, “no, of course you can’t, we’ll ban you.”
Tolouse then goes on to explain that whilst the Swastika does has various meanings depending on orientation, “no educated human on the planet looks at the swastika symbol on a video game service in “the year we make contact” and says “oh, that symbol has nothing at all in any way to do with global genocide of an entire race and, even if it did, one should totally and reasonably ignore that because it’s a symbol that was stolen or coop-ted from religions.”
Apparently this hasn’t gone down well with some, who are now calling for the Star of David, the Christian Cross, and the Infinity Symbol to also be banned.
Tolouse then signs off by saying the following:
“The Xbox LIVE profile and in game content you create is accessible by everyone. You do not have the context inside of it to explain your long winded contrarian view that your pithy text that violates the Terms of Use or Code of Conduct is actually intended to change people’s minds about a commonly held understanding.
It’s not political correctness, it’s fundamental respect. If you think the swastika symbol should be re-evaluated by societies all over the Earth, I think that’s great. Your Xbox LIVE profile or in game logo, which doesn’t have the context to explain your goal, is not the right place to do that. And by the way, that doesn’t just go for the Swastika, it applies to many other symbols as well that my team does indeed take action on when we see it.
Context.
Yes we can have the discussion in other venues about the double meaning of various terms, something my team does everyday. But for many topics, its kind of a no-brainer.
*Context*
If you see offensive symbols in Call of Duty, Black Ops, report them using the in game option and they will be taken care of. If you want to argue that swastikas are actually AWESOME, go to another forum. On Xbox LIVE they are not allowed.”
Source: Stepto
squashme
MS need to get in the real world and stop being pathetic if they ban people with 1 religous symbol then they should ban all religous symbols being used
being banned from playin a certain game for usin it yea fair doos but bein banned from the whole of live thats just being stupid
if they like religous symbols being used then they should be takin it out on the devs for aloowing people to create them not the gamers who are allowed to make and use them the devs are responible for them after all
jikomanzoku
Not just religious, but national, social and ideological as well, especially given that the context within which microsoft are banning the swastika is socio-political.
The Union Flag is probably not very popular with the many thousands of families in Afghanistan and Iraq who have suffered the deaths of family members through “collateral damage” etc.
I shouldn’t imagine Clan McDonald tartan goes down well with some members of Clan Campbell either.
Orange as a colour can prove offensive to Catholics due to its association with William of Orange and the Orange Order. The list goes on and on and on.
GranTurismo-Disciple
I wouldn’t be bothered if i saw one at all! Whoever said whoever uses the symbol are racist they are wrong! Whoever sees the swastika instantly think of nazi’s, but what about the people who use it as a religeous symbol does that mean they are racist too?
The Mysterious Phantom Bear
We all know the vast majority will be using it to be controversial.
The average intelligence of COD players I’ve encountered prohibits me from speculating that any of them are using the swastika to invite religious conversation.
The most conversation I get out of the average COD player is “Fag”, “Your Mom” and “F***ing Brit, fix your teeth”
SuperHans
Yep, This is just another one of the numerous instances of Political ‘Correctness’ (even though it’s all one-sided discriminating bollocks) gone mad.
DrNate86
I wouldn’t say banning swastikas as user logos is political correctness gone mad. It’s pretty sensible really, they aren’t being used as historically accurate to enhance the setting, nor are they being used ad religious worship, they are just kids being controversial. You wouldn’t like to see someone with a big swastika tattooed on their face walking around in public, the same rule of public decency applies here.
jikomanzoku
Where do you choose to draw your line then Nate? As I’ve pointed out throughout this debate – nearly all symbols and flags and representations of different “tribes” of human cause offence to somebody. Show me where your line is?
Juelz345
Maybe the line is blurry, hell maybe there is no line and it’s just based on an individual’s discretion. But the fact of the Matter is that this particular symbol is know world wide as a symbol of hate and genocide. And that’s all that matters.
Maybe other symbols of religions should be blocked, maybe they shouldn’t and that can be debated. But I sincerely hope that i don’t live to see the day that swastikas become socially acceptable.
jikomanzoku
I don’t think it’s an issue of the swastika being socially acceptable, I think the bigger concern, (and pardon me if I’m interpreting what you’re saying wrong) would be if we were to live in a country or society in which fascist ideals and policies were the accepted norm. Up until recently, the BNP and other far right political movements would regularly use nazi imagery, but that didn’t mean it was socially acceptable – the majority of us see them as nasty horrible characters.
With this in mind, the swastikas visibility in this game even if deployed in the context of an avatar for some white supremacist lunatic, would not mean it was socially acceptable within the wider community. On the contrary, it’s probably a pretty good indicator that its owner is a dick and highly likely to be muted before I even start the round.
The internet is a borderless community in which all the Earths peoples mix, so the only realistic approach in my mind is to either ban or allow all symbols, since one of those approaches is impractical, unrealistic and fundamentally flawed, I’ll support the latter.
DrNate86
I think I was clear about what my line was: what would you be comfortable having tattooed to your face?
Bladesteel
It would be great if they would allow people to wear/use swastikas everywhere. Works as a shorthand for “I’m a stupid racist punk that you don’t want to spend a second interacting with because you’ll become dumber just by listening to me”.
Would save me a load of time when choosing who to ignore.
jikomanzoku
Well said Bladesteel.
Nate, that’s not the way you put it at all. You said:
“You wouldn’t like to see someone with a big swastika tattooed on their face walking around in public, the same rule of public decency applies here.”
You’re right, I wouldn’t like to see that at all, but it’s not illegal and, unless they were inciting hatred and violence (in which case I would and have phone(d) the police) or engaged in an assault on someone (in which case I’d intervene physically) I’d likely just think “tosser” and be on my way whilst making sure to be wary of them.
The state has no control over how someone chooses to tattoo their body and as Steel so rightly points out, it acts as a brilliant indicator that the owner of said tattoo is not likely to share a similar world view and outlook on life as myself.
My point with regard to your line being drawn, refers to the issue as a whole ie: the banning of an offensive symbol. As I point out elsewhere, symbols, be they the Union Flag, the American Flag, a Tartan, The Christian Cross and even some colours are deemed offensive by different social groups, so where do we draw the line?
DrNate86
I can’t really be bothered to repeat myself or debate this, but that is my line I am drawing. If it is inappropriate to have tattooed on your body, it is inappropriate to display publicly. I’m not saying it’s illegal, but that is the distinction I am drawing. It is ridiculous to argue that a cross or the American flag is as offensive as a swastika. Of course people have been persecuted by Christians, but the cross is not internationally seen as a symbol of hate. The swastika is, you can show it to anyone and they will think of Nazi Germany.
jikomanzoku
Fair enough, I hear you. For me to close in similar fashion to yourself on this, I believe that whether any symbol is as offensive as any other or not is simply a matter of perspective and degree, so their banning seems pointless.
I’m very much of a similar opinion to Steve Hughes (the comedian I linked elsewhere on this page) on these sorts of issue and he is far more eloquent than I. Either way it’s certainly a divisive issue and I apologise if I’ve annoyed you. Peace.
Juelz345
I see all these comments where people are bashing MS (as they do every time there is a MS post)and i just don’t understand it.
Yo all agree that the symbol is negative and shouldn’t be allowed, but say that MS are wrong for not allowing it. Based on what? The fact the the same symbol is used in games? That just doesn’t add up. Not to mention the fact the Terms of Agreement say that you can’t use potentially offensive material anywhere on LIVE. Simple as that. I once got a 3 day ban because i put “FU*K Tom Clancy” as my motto. No one to blame but myself.
If swastikas were being used in bad taste in the video games then that is an issue that should be addressed, I guess. But to my knowledge it’s been used in some sort of historical representation. But someone using that symbol to represent them selves on a service that has millions of people, a fair bit of who are sure to be offended (and rightfully so) is socially unacceptable and should be punished. A 3 day ban like I’ve received seems fitting. If the person is a repeat offender then ban him from the service all together.
I personally feel that it’s these types of people that bring down the over all experience of LIVE and commend MS for trying to keep these things under control. I constantly see people on PSN with highly offensive PSN names and wish there was a reporting mechanic.
bunimomike
To be honest, Juelz, I’m idly hoping that most folk would give Sony an ear-bend for it too. It’s simply large corporates covering their arses from such sensitive symbolism.
deadwelsh
‘Potentially Offensive Material’ – couldn’t this be just about anything?
Didn’t they also ban people for being gay/having the word gay in their profile name?
Raen
That’s pretty much my stance. They aren’t being used in a game for offense, they’re being used for historical accuracy. When someone uses that symbol to represent themselves in any context (whether it be an online avatar or a tattoo) they’re implicitly giving their approval to the actions of the Nazis.
Rob92
Must’ve missed the history lesson when Kennedy and Castro got attacked by Nazi Zombies.
grimm
I have to say I think it’s extremely hypocritical of them to disallow any nazi symbol in a game that features the nazis as a major part of the plot/theme. In fact I’d go as far as to say that it’s perfectly in keeping with the tone of the game. Reminds me of the totally overblown taliban business in medal of honour.
OneShotWook
This kindve thing wouldn’t have happened if Hitler had taken a more casual approach,maybe commerce.Maybe he couldve found a way to have a presence in say 70% of the globes populations housing without genocide,possibly then just destroy their revenue and track pretty much every area of their lives whilst still profiteering off them.Now that wouldve been truly genius.
Anyways as has been said mostly this is just a symbol used by someone wanting to say a big FU without wanting to appear comical and drawing a penis.
That being said i’m now off to scan my face and voice into kinekt and have it upload,i then should be off having fun pretending to be in a boat,happy days right?:).
jikomanzoku
watch this from about 3:30 till 5:40. I think this guys sums up the broaderr issue very succinctly.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TAGJpISVERg
OneShotWook
That guys genius,loved the straightness of gay men vid to,very funny.
An-dz
Theres loads of offensive things that can be created with the playcard creation tool. I see alot of the nazi symbols on PS3 too. Suly they must have seen this coming when they designed the playcard feature?
deadwelsh
Ha Ha Ha Ha…
I wonder how many millions of people have died at the hands of those bearing crucifixes as their emblem? – It will be an obscene number just for the last decade!
How many more millions will die in the next world war, at the hands of America and its cronies? When will the stars and stripes get you banned from Xbox Live
Anyone noticed how the NATO logo is not that far from a swazstika!? Surely they could have picked something else, like a bird, or some symbol of peace?
Personally i think its bullshit to put the picture in the game for use, and to then ban people for using it creatively or not. Surely MS could have asked activision/Treyarch to keep it out of their version!
Everyone is entitled to your own opinion – unless it goes against the rules of course ;)
tonycawley
The symbol itself is not in the game at all, but can easily be created.
deadwelsh
So they are banning people for making a picture?
Does that mean they will ban all those people who have made a cock as their emblem, or how about those with CUNT as the clan tag?
Thew Game is an 18 – most people of that age and above are sensaible enough to realise – its only a game. If you dont like the guy with the Swastike, fine – shoot him in the face, mute him so you cant hear his retarded comments.
These people have spent nearly £50 on the disc, and then another £40 for the ‘privilege’ of playing online, only to be told “yeah we dont like what you have done so here’s a ban – but thanks for your cash :)”
bunimomike
Your last paragraph interests me. I’d like to think they’d have a written warning/request to change said offensive material.
gazzagb
Seems fair enough.
Spotter5
I saw someone had a swastika as their symbol, It was well made. I laughed at him and thought he was a twat.
Also saw a guy boning a sheep, which was really funny :’D