L.A Noire Doubts for Xbox 360

DVD could be a stumbling block.

Published 09/03/2010 at 13:46.
By wotta.

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Rumours are emerging that L.A Noire developers, Team Bondi, may be getting frustrated with the disc capacity limitations of the Xbox 360.

Things are so bad that it has been suggested that Jeronimo Barrera of Rockstar has been asked by Take Two Interactive to try and calm the developer’s fears that their game may suffer because of this.

L.A Noire was thought to have previously been a PS3 exclusive game, so it would make sense that if the PS3 is the main platform that the developers would have to try and compress the game down enough to be able to fit it onto a DVD, since the Blu-Ray disc has a much larger capacity.

With Final Fantasy XIII on Xbox 360 already appearing on three discs compared to the PlayStation 3′s one, it is obvious that developers are starting to struggle with the limited capacity that DVDs offer. What Microsoft can do about this other than release a new console or a larger HDD is anyone’s guess.

Thanks w3r3w0lf

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cc_star | 09/03/2010 13:50
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They can’t do anything – they had the chance with a HD-DVD add-on but didn’t want to fracture their userbase, now they’ve missed that opportunity they can’t do anything other than adopt Blu-ray – which they will never ever do.

I know the 360 is great bit of kit with some truly amazing games, but I’m getting a bit fed of games being designed around an old storage medium – this seems to be happening more and more – perhaps Microsoft thought the digital download market would be more advanced and would feature AAA blockbuster titles rather than the playable smaller games we’ve grown to love.
- Raen | 09/03/2010 14:16
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  The HD-DVD add on could have worked, but as you said it just would have fractured the user base far too much, one that’s already split by the HDD/No HDD issue.
  
  It should be remembered that neither HD-DVD or Blu-Ray were ready when the 360 was released, HD-DVD came out four months later (they could have delayed but that would have meant a delay to Christmas 2006 really), and Blu-Ray wasn’t ready till early 2006, which would have been a two year lag. They had no choice but to go with DVD for optical media.
  - CircleOfFire | 09/03/2010 14:38
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    Well they had no choice based on their evident intent on beating the PS3 out of the door, if that was less of an issue for them it could’ve run with either. Might’ve helped with certain reliability issues no doubt as well. Would’ve been interesting to see how things would’ve played out in that case.
  - Raen | 09/03/2010 14:42
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    True, if they’d been willing to wait they could have had HD-DVD which would have made the format war a lot more interesting.
  - jimmy-google | 09/03/2010 15:11
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    Or they could have designed their own media like Sega did with the Dreamcast.
  - cc_star | 09/03/2010 15:14
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    It’s all about value.
    Value is the thing which has got the 360 in to as many people’s homes as it has done, and given the 360 a crucial lead in sales which obviously leads to higher software sales which means developers will always handle MS with respect.
    
    Waiting and adding HD-DVD or designing their own format would have cost (up to) billions and their one year lead to market.
  - jimmy-google | 09/03/2010 15:49
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    Though if MS think Natal will give the 360 another 5 years the disc capacity could cripple that idea before it gets going.
  - shifty360 | 09/03/2010 21:43
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    as much as i despise the 360 i still feel sorry for the users of its console it has A LOT of short comings which is a shame other wise it could be winning this war instead of a tight draw between ps3 and the 360 for second place, its a shame they wont take up the blu-ray optical medium because it has a lot of potential, but i guess in there long term out look its going digital distribution for them, i wouldn’t be surprised if Microsoft dont take a leaf out of OnLive’s book, and do something around that infrastructure, itll also prevent chipped consoles which the 360 have an abundance of.
superjag86 | 09/03/2010 13:52
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850 TSA Points | Member since: Feb 2009

Maybe they can release it with a second disc which requires a mandatory install. I realise this cuts off Arcade owners but it’s an idea if they still want to go multiplatform.
I just hope this is as good as Mafia 2 is looking!
- patch | 09/03/2010 14:26
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  This. When asked about adopting blu-ray, Microsoft are happy to pull out the “downloads are the future” line, ignoring the fact they STILL sell a model without any viable storage medium.
- a inferior race | 09/03/2010 23:51
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  This would cut me off as well as I only have 20Gb HDD and I am not deleting a good chunk of my game saves for the sake of one game.
Porcupine_I | 09/03/2010 13:59
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Blu-ray dev: “hmmm, what else can we put on there to fill it up?”

DVD dev: “hmmm, what else can we cut to fit it on there?”

:-D
- TSBonyman | 09/03/2010 14:07
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  seems to be the way it’s going…:)
- bajere | 09/03/2010 16:08
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  been thinking that for years… i always look at a game and wonder what else they could of added. FIFA10 could of had better crowds or more stadiums, Fightnight could have more boxers, AC2 could have a few more missions, GTA:IV with lots more indoor missions, etc etc. But the 360 has more users, so the PS3 has to play second fiddel…its business, i understand that… Problem is that once the 360 gets replaced by Microsoft the PS3 would be on the cutting board, so we may never know what else muli-plat games could offer us PS3 users.
- shifty360 | 09/03/2010 21:44
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  they put extra content on god of war 3 thats how big it is
  :)
Foxhound_Solid | 09/03/2010 14:15
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Sadly this is one of the many problems that 360 owners are sadly becoming a custom to.

With games becoming ever more detailed and us – the gamer demanding more and more in depth and ideas, storage is and should be a topic which is paramount – esp for MS and Sony.

Devs will start pushing and eventually this will become a staple issue for MS.

It will be interesting to see how they get round this when in all honesty there is only one solution – Blu Ray……..
- cc_star | 09/03/2010 14:18
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  Its affecting the PS3 more than the Xbox 360 though… 360 owners aren’t going to miss what they’ve never had and can’t ever have, whilst PS3 owners are left feeling a bit compromised (at best).
  - Foxhound_Solid | 09/03/2010 14:30
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    yeah – you have a point here. Really it should be a case of all games pushed as far as poss for Sony. With cut backs being made for others where required.
    
    To be honest, if something doesnt give soon, I can see different versions of the same game appearing. I cant see MS accepting Blu Ray Tech as its indirectly taking a chomp out of the humble pie.
  - bajere | 09/03/2010 16:19
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    Why MS ever thought Blu-Rays wouldnt win over HD-DVD is puzzling!!! If Sony back it, its going to lead…i mean, Sony produce more Hollywood films than you can shake a stick at?!?!?!
  - toutski | 09/03/2010 16:27
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    Not always true though bajere.
    
    See betamax and minidisc to name a few…
  - cc_star | 09/03/2010 16:31
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    In fact Blu-ray is about the only storage format Sony has backed that has worked, probably because they are aren’t the principle architects of it, just one of a large group of backers
  - jimmy-google | 09/03/2010 16:37
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    Would DVD have been picked up as quickly if the ps2 hadn’t supported it?
    
    Mini Disc was crippled buy the sudden emergence of mp3s but even then it was a good few years before ipods were on the scene.
  - bajere | 09/03/2010 17:18
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    i was focusing on todays world… think i was only 1 when betamax/VHS was being fought out, so i cant really say much about that one.lol. and Mini-disks were unlucky with the timing of mp3, but valid point…
    
    Anyways as for the BluRay era, it was clear that it was going to prevail due to the connections between sony and hollywood…well IMO.
    
    What will be interesting is the adaption to downloading/streaming services, i think that will shrink the BluRay market. maybe only blockbusters appearing on Disk with nice packagings, and the standard films…say a romcom, being streaming/download only. And the same for games, UC4 on disk, FIFA14 on download. something to think about for those of us who like the cases.
  - shifty360 | 09/03/2010 21:47
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    back you up there, they also had warner brothers i think it was as a backer
52pickup | 09/03/2010 14:16
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And there are people who still to this day say,Blu-ray has no extra benefits above DVD. FFXIII,Lost Planet 2 and now this,even though it is not essential for creating a good video game experience,battling against space limitations is not exactely thrilling a prospect to devs in this day and age of extra disc capacity is it?! I say fit it all on Blu-ray, if they can’t fit it on 360 DVDs then cut the content for their format,not PS3 owners problem is it? Why should we suffer?
- Foxhound_Solid | 09/03/2010 14:32
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  True – very true. The PS3′s advantage should not act as a hinderance for us PS3 Gamers…..
  
  I would still watch this space [excuse the pun] – if MS dont pull somet out the bag. Different, Same Games for each system…
- Raen | 09/03/2010 14:44
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  Because developers are unwilling to put out different core content across consoles, clearly favouring one over the other. This would probably do significant harm to their relationship with MS which no studio wants.
- Boiler | 09/03/2010 17:07
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  …Fallout 3 – only has 4 or five different looking characters, not much variety in enemies, and only 4 or 5 locations copy and pasted. Vaults, metro, same building interiors, same underground areas (Yao Guai tunnels, Deathclaw sanctuary, entrance to little lamplight etc. etc.) same desks everywhere, same cupboards, same filing cabinets.
  I love love LOVE Fallout 3 (it’s one of the best games this generation), but the game could have done with some more variety in the graphics department (I still don’t know to this day how they squeezed it onto a DVD).
  And then there’s Oblivion which was awful for repetition. 300 copy and pasted dungeons… phew. How many oblivion gates were there that were virtually identical?
  
  Apparently Fallout New Vegas is going to be way bigger than the capital wasteland and you’ll need vehicles to get across it… how? The only way to accomplish this is by reducing texture quality and diluting the environment further. If Bethesda want one big open world, it isn’t going to work on DVD.
  Not unless you have 2 DVDs and install one, like with Fallout 3 GOTY. Or unless you make the game more linear and chop the game into two or three sections that you don’t return to (Like FF XIII). Either way the solution isn’t ideal.
  My vote is for F:NV to come on 3 DVDs and 2 of them have to be installed / unpacked prior to starting. Won’t happen though.
  GOW3 is 35Gb (US) / 40Gb (EU) and its linear. Technically you could split that up into chunks. How do you split an open world that you’re going to be fast travelling back and forth on?
  - cc_star | 09/03/2010 17:20
    Team TSA: Writer
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    Take a litre jug and fill it with stones, is the jug full?
    Yes it is, but what if later on you realise you can fit in some small pebbles which fill the gaps in between the stones in the jug.
    Is it full now… yes it is
    
    Later on though you realise you can sand in between the small pebbles, with the grains of sand filling all the gaps between the pebbles and the stones
    Is it full now, again yes it is full and you might think you can’t get anything else in to the jug, but of course you’be be wrong, you can use ever smaller and smaller particles which will fill the jug further and further.
    
    Game developers do this when they revisit their code, they optimise until it can’t be optimised anymore… and then later on they find new techniques to optimise further… This is how developers approach problems when someone says you cannot fit anymore info on a DVD…or you can’t fit anymore data in the PS3′s weird memory configuration.
    PS. Don’t be fooled by some games taking up 35GB+ and think that wouldn’t fit on a DVD9, in most case it would just by compressing and optimising with zero noticable difference, and another reason is that many in-game textures are duplicated all over the Blu-ray disk because of the drives slow seek speed, whereas that data can easily be streamed from a DVD because it’s faster.
    
    The real limitation is how much time (& therefore money) a developer can put in to these compression/decompression techniques, just the same as when developers need to spend time and money optimising data for the PS3 memory, or lack of eDRAM buffers.
  - Boiler | 10/03/2010 09:44
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    Have you ever been on holiday with Ryan air?
    There is only so much you can pack into a 15kg case.
    You can buy lighter clothes. Leave one pair of shoes at home. Squeeze out half your toothpaste to shed a couple of grams.
    There comes a time when you think. I wish I was travelling BA with a 20/25kg limit.
    
    Optimisation is good, but you can only compress sound and textures so much without them sounding / looking bad.
    Code is easier to optimise, but large texture assets for a large open world can’t be squeezed much further.
    
    Like I say Fallout 3 was really cool even though you could definitely see where Bethdesta were filling in their jug space with sand. But I think it would be nice not to have that constraint. I suppose only time will tell how bad the problem is.
    But I want bags of big chunky rocks dammit!
  - Boiler | 10/03/2010 09:56
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    That reply of mine was quite sarky … imagine me writing it with a wry smile on my face rather than a rabid fanboy frothing at the mouth.
    Sarcasm aside you are right about optimisation. However I personally think that multiplat Devs have been working on that limit since a year or two into the gen. The very first games released took up the whole 6.8GB and they’ve been optimising ever since, trying to cram and cram.
    With blu ray how many titles have filled up the full 50Gb?
    I’m not dumb enough to think that God of War couldn’t have been crammed down further. Texture resolutions lowered. Sound compressed. I’m sure the game could have been released as 20Gb and I wouldn’t have been able to tell the difference.
    6.8Gb though…? I’ve a feeling we’re reaching the space limit for expansive “AAA” titles.
eirekun | 09/03/2010 14:36
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Imagine the howls of discontent if this ‘shrinkage’ had been applied to GOW III? 1st Party PS3 devs must be glad they don’t have to deal with this & they’re probably where I’ll be spending more of my gaming money in the future.
ivycrew | 09/03/2010 14:56
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The problem with xbox and blu-ray is that not everyone may want to but a extra piece. Then devlopers my lose a lot of their fans left out which means less sales and less money
Apnomis | 09/03/2010 14:59
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1751 TSA Points | Member since: Sep 2009

Instead of gimping the game to pander to the 360′s space issues I wish devs would just make the game as good as it can be on PS3 and then try to cram it onto one or more DVD’s, if sounds have to be compressed, textures and resolutions compromised, and even sections cut from the game entirely then so be it…
- cc_star | 09/03/2010 15:05
  Team TSA: Writer
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  There’s no business reasons to do any of that though, even a Sony PR man said X360 versions of games outsell PS3 versions by around 1.6:1 and until that figure is reversed then the 360 will generally be the lead platform.
  
  Also with this higher level of sales Microsoft is a more valuable partner to them than Sony, which means developers and publishers aren’t going to piss them off with sub-standard or cut down versions of games.
  - pachinkoboy | 09/03/2010 15:44
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    With the growing emergence of the PS3 and the recent resurgence it has experienced, such a claim is laughable and hilarious at best. Posting old sales figures or cliches is also rather funny; please, we’re not living in 2007 anymore, nerds, get a grip on reality. The fact of the matter is that the PS3 offers the best possible platform for gamers, and with Blu-Ray the limits are absolutely endless: pure lossless video and audio and the best possible gaming experience. True developers who care about quality and integrity know that the PS3 is the console to make games for.
  - pachinkoboy | 09/03/2010 15:48
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    What is also very important to note is that while the Xbox 360 is completely piracy-ridden, with almost all of its games available on the internet upon (or sometimes before) release, the PS3 is the best piece of anti-piracy software around: not a single PS3 game has ever been pirated, and will never be, thanks to the PS3′s protection system. Which means not a single copy is lost to piracy.
  - Raen | 09/03/2010 16:08
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    Um those aren’t from 2007, they’re from now. Very current figures (he mentions they’re from post price cut when Slim was released and my guess would be they’re from now) that shows that the 360 sells up to 1.6 times the number of games that the PS3 does.
    
    And yes the PS3 is a good platform to make games for, but if the 360 is still outselling in number of copies (no matter what the actual attach rate) then ignoring it or spurning it in anyway is a terrible decision from a business perspective.
    
    Finally on piracy if the 360 is still selling at least as many and up to 1.6 times as many copies as the PS3 with piracy surely that says something?
jimmy-google | 09/03/2010 15:56
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2825 TSA Points | Member since: Feb 2009

It doesn’t help that MS penalise developers for using more than one disc by charging them more for the privilage
ivycrew | 09/03/2010 16:16
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Well definetly a trend starting. First square and now this in terms of storage being a problem. The flood gates have opened for Sony!