Lunchtime Discussion: Death
Treating death correctly
Published: 12:00, 21/09/2010 by Kris [Halbpro].
44Straight away I’d like to say I don’t agree with the media. There’s no proven link between violence in video games and real life actions, and in fact the evidence suggests that if there is a link it’s weaker than it is with books or films. I played Halo: Reach for eight hours straight last Tuesday and I’ve yet to try and storm any military compounds. However I think games do have an issue in the sheer scale of violence involved in games and the casual way in which it’s often treated.
The frequent cry by gamers is for games to be taken seriously, that they’re now big business and contribute billions of dollars a year to the global economy. All of this is perfectly true, but perhaps we should take a little look at the content of the biggest grossing games to see how they compare to other mediums.
Until last year Titanic was the biggest grossing film of all time, and whilst pretty much everyone does die it’s hardly a violent film. Compare that to Modern Warfare 2, where the body count is far higher than any game and it seems clear cut, we like violent games more than films. Of course Avatar has now overtaken Titanic, and whilst I haven’t seen the film it does seem reasonably violent.
No, there are popular violent films and popular violent games. When you compare the lists there does seem to be a mix of violent and non-violent titles across mediums, so what am I complaining about? More than anything it’s the way that death is treated in games.
So frequently death means little or nothing in a game. Maybe you’ll be fighting for your life and you kill someone because you have to in order survive. In general I find that characters frequently show remorse in other mediums, the exception is normally in action pieces like Die Hard where the over the top situation would make remorse seem odd. However far more films or books will feature characters who feel bad about killing, who don’t really want to do what they’re doing.
I don’t think I’ve ever seen a game where the protagonist shows any significant remorse for their actions or feels conflicted about what they’re doing. The character depth simply isn’t there in most titles, and I think the industry is worse off for it. We can easily have our over the top titles, our Grand Theft Autos and Gears of Wars, but it would be nice if there was some balance in more games that treat things in a more mature, somber way.
Of course that’s just what I think, so how about you? Do games treat death to lightly? Would we better off if we had more ‘serious’ games? Or are all games not meant to be taken seriously?
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21/09/2010 at 12:13
Member since: May 2009
I think that Heavy Rain handled death pretty well.
When your character dies, they die, and the story just keeps on rolling along. Equally, when you can first kill someone, I actually felt remorse for having done so. I hadn’t meant to, but a knee jerk reaction to an on screen happening saw me kill, and I felt bad.
Then later, when I was to kill again, I walked away from it. I was role playing with that particular character, and I couldn’t see his, admittedly strong, motivations be able to overcome his moral judgement.
Though I did enjoy the mindless revenge shootout (well it was revenge).
All this confusing enough? Well, spoilers handily avoided.
21/09/2010 at 12:14
Member since: Forever
Agreed! Heavy Rain was incredible for that feeling of guilt.
21/09/2010 at 12:48
Member since: Sep 2009
+1 Heavy Rain is the only game I’ve played this gen that fits the type of game described in this article. The characters show remorse and when you do need to kill someone it is a big decision that you don’t take lightly (as it happened I didn’t shoot the ‘crazy’ guy or the guy with kids in my first playthrough).
I’m not sure I would want every game to be like this though – there is a balance to be had. Just like in film there is a balance between Hollywood action and other more realistic genres.
As bad as it sounds to say killing and shooting is a fun gameplay mechanic, and if you took that from the game what would you replace it with? Mirror’s Edge is probably unique in the first-person genre for treating gunplay as a last resort…
21/09/2010 at 17:23
Member since: Dec 2008
Aponomis, you sort of trod all over tef’s careful spoiler handling there with your sentence in brackets..
21/09/2010 at 17:45
Member since: Aug 2009
Same if i did something and didnt like it for my character, i would go back and load it and play it again!
21/09/2010 at 13:59
Member since: Oct 2008
heavy rain is a good example!
also i think i shadow of the colussus, even if the character dient really feel remorse (or at least, it wasnt expressed), most people, including me say they felt it. and in my opinion thats even stronger.
21/09/2010 at 12:14
Member since: Forever
Often games when you kill a lot of enemies, it’s most comparable to a crazy action film.
21/09/2010 at 12:15
Member since: Forever
What an awful sentence that was. That’ll teach me to not pay attention whilst writing.
21/09/2010 at 12:14
Member since: Mar 2009
Some games treat death more realistically (Valkyria Chronicles for instance does a reasonable job), but on the whole I’d rather not have too much in the way of grim, depressing moments in most games. Uncharted for example would be pretty dire if Nathan Drake felt too much remorse over the dead bodies he leaves behind: he’d probably spend half the game in tears, which would reduce his aiming ability considerably :)
In conclusion: there is a place for remorse in games but I think most should stick with over the top all-action scenarios, simply because they make better interactive experiances, in the same way as fantasy novels might have the characters wandering around and taliking a lot of the time and not actually doing much, whereas fantasy RPGs are full of random battles everywhere.
21/09/2010 at 12:17
Member since: Aug 2009
I think Uncharted would’ve been much better if it did’t have an endless army of clones trying to kill Drake… I just don’t like how they could just randomly appear after you attack a guard as if they are physic..
Simply why can’t it be like Metal Gear Solid?
21/09/2010 at 20:08
Member since: Jan 2010
MGS3. I won’t spoil it, but at the end ‘Boss’ fight, Standing over them with the gun. The game waiting… wanting… making you kill them. Took me quite a while to press it. :’(
23/09/2010 at 16:26
Member since: Sep 2010
hopefully this will be fixed in uncharted 3
21/09/2010 at 12:17
Member since: Aug 2008
Good article, I’m hard pushed to think of any games that provoke that kind of thought. I suppose the closest I can think of is Heavy Rain, I did actually feel bad about “that” part.. However, I do remember one time while playing GTAIV, I hijacked some womans car, by standing in front of it and pointing a gun at her, she gets out of the car and puts her hands up and I decide to shoot her anyway, so pop one between the eyes (yeah, feels weird saying that). Anyway, the way she just dropped made me think “Sh*t! That was a bit realistic!” and I actually felt a bit bad about it. I think thats a testament to the physics engine more than anything, but making it more “real” does seem to have more of an effect, imo..
21/09/2010 at 12:19
Member since: Jul 2009
It’s treated like we’re all teenagers watching the latest Arnie or Sly film. Body-count and throwaway dialogue galore! Then again, that’s no bad thing. Sometimes we want something mindless and a bit mental on the senses.
For me, I’m just looking forward to a real maturation of the industry when the likes of Heavy Rain are no longer “revolutionary” and are merely part of a more grown-up move to cater to a maturing demographic.
When Nate dealt with a certain someone being shot in UC2 that really hit me too. I felt for them. The pain and discomfort. It was very well handled but then so much is with UC2.
I’d love to see that far more often. As you allude, Kris, the cause and affect. The real repercussions of our actions. For that to happen we need emotional attachment to characters and it’s still so very rare in gaming (compared to the likes of films/TV).
We’ll get there in maybe 20 years time and it’ll be a smooth transition all of the way, but for me, it can’t come soon enough.
21/09/2010 at 12:53
Member since: Sep 2009
Yeah that was a great bit of virtual acting, and was a real “OMG they can’t do that!” moment you normally only get watching films or TV shows…
21/09/2010 at 12:20
Member since: Jul 2009
Also, can we avoid any obvious spoilers if at all possible? Thanks! :-)
21/09/2010 at 12:23
Member since: May 2010
death and violence have always been used for our entertainment from nursery rhymes to cartoons, punch and judy etc(and thats just the kids stuff!) .. and as video games are just entertainment i have no issue with how death is handled. I think it would be difficult to treat death or violence in a more mature way in games as you wouldnt go to prison, face victims families in court…. how could they add the genuine gravitas of the impact of death/violence ?? the scottish nursery rhymes i was brought up on are ridiculously violent, one starts with….. ‘murder, murder police’!
21/09/2010 at 12:29
Member since: Jul 2009
But the emotional impact would flesh out the character and seeing as a campaign might take 10 to 20 hours that’s a long time for investment; meaning psychological attachment is all the more possible. Just like films, we want the tear-jerkers, the thoughtful ones, the brainless action films.
Surely feeling more for a game is a good thing (unless it’s the feeling of disgust over Terminator Salvation). :-p
21/09/2010 at 12:46
Member since: May 2010
everything you say already exist in games i am merely saying what more could they do to convey the impact of death/violence? also who amongst us hasnt shot our in game side kick in the face just for the fuck of it?!!!
21/09/2010 at 13:53
Member since: Jul 2009
Your saying that we have the emotional and mental side of characters we play as (or meet) during a game, nailed? I couldn’t disagree more. Obviously if you’re not saying that then I have not only the wrong end of the stick but someone else’s stick altogether. :-)
21/09/2010 at 14:38
Member since: May 2010
crossed wires i think, and please let go of my stick
21/09/2010 at 14:49
Member since: Jul 2009
Absolutely. Can’t have my reputation tarnished. ;-)
21/09/2010 at 12:46
Member since: Mar 2009
I would actually stand up for Rockstar on this one. Yes their games are filled with violence, but with GTA IV and RDR it is made pretty clear that the protagonists are aware they are “bad men” and, certainly with RDR are looking to change their situation. Yes Drake is trying to survive but theres no reference to the body count he leaves behind (as far as I can recall). Also it is possible to have a violent game but avoid countless death, just look at Batman and Spiderman.
21/09/2010 at 14:54
Member since: Aug 2010
when he faces of against the arch villian of each game, the cut scenes before the battle commences, each respective villain references drakes massive body count.
21/09/2010 at 13:03
Member since: Mar 2009
I always felt sad killing a colossus in SOTC and I never liked it. But I had to in order to rescue that lovely girl…
21/09/2010 at 13:58
Member since: Aug 2008
*sniff* spoiler alert :(
21/09/2010 at 14:01
Member since: Oct 2008
hey, cool username. you speakin german? if so, Grüße aus Wien! :)
21/09/2010 at 14:01
Member since: May 2010
I had that too – there were a couple that were quite mean and nasty… didn’t feel too bad about them, but most of the colossus were lovely seemingly peaceful creatures.
I still LOVE the strange ending to that game, and am really looking forward to the HD release.