Realism? Titles like Operation Flashpoint and Gran Turismo strive to perfect it, and are getting mind-blowingly close (sometimes), but what about the old arcade racers and shooters? Is there still a place for “un-realism” or do we really need to be simulating the entire experience? Blair, Colin and myself sit down to answer another one of life’s mind bending questions.
Blair: I’m not really bothered, Forza was a good one, I thought. Not too much of a sim and just fun. I’m honestly not sold on GT5 with all its realism, yet.
Colin: It depends on the type of game and what the player wants from it. If I was to play an F1 game then I want it to be as realistic as possible but if I played a Call of Duty title I’m looking for a fun, arcade feel. Getting the balance right between realism and fun is important in those games.
Blair: I like OTT games that just blow everything up. Sometimes. I like racers that give you an experience like the real world… sometimes. It all just depends, really. It’s all about how good the game is.
Murdo: For me, racers have to be arcade-y. Games like Split/Second and Burnout nail it on the head with the insane jumps and explosions. I’m awful at Forza and Gran Turismo, I need all the driving aids on and some sort of braking device, which is normally the other cars. Drifting round a corner at 100MPH with a building collapsing behind me is just perfect.
Colin: I love both, I rank GTR2, a sim, and Split/Second equally as my two favourite racing games. I don’t like Gran Turismo though, it has tried to be too realistic and isn’t fun for me. All games should have a element of fun, even if it goes for absolute realism.
Blair: I like the arcade style but it doesn’t suit all games. Some games need to be simulators, that’s just how they are. Although, I’m not sold with this new ‘Hardcore’ mode in Fallout: New Vegas where you have to live in the game as well as just play it.
Murdo: The ‘Hardcode’ mode sounds like too much hard work. I would never enjoy a game like that, one of the reasons I despise the Sims games. My only ever experience was me forcing my character to kiss Will.I.Am. That does not reflect me character though!
Blair: Wait, what?
Murdo: Moving on… I do like some realism in games, especially shooters. Operation Flashpoint 2 was almost perfect in its simulation and I have high hopes for the next iteration. Games like Call of Duty marry the arcade and sim styles well I think. Don’t even get me started on space shooters though.
Blair: I like the way Killzone 2 worked; the controls feel heavy, which make it feel more like you are controlling a character rather than a piece of cardboard with a gun attached. The gameplay itself wasn’t realistic, but you managed to feel what it would be like to be in that environment. Same goes for Dead Space, and that really built up the atmosphere.
Murdo: I’ve yet to play Dead Space but the trailers for number two are almost forcing me to pick it up. I’ve heard great things.
Colin: I loved Killzone although I never got far in the campaign. I enjoy playing both Call of Duty and Killzone, they have different feels and you can have different kinds of fun with them. I’m glad Killzone has the weighty controls as it provides an alternative to most other shooters.
Blair: I’m hoping they don’t ruin the ‘feel’ in KZ3 and DS2.
Colin: I hope they keep the same weight in Killzone 3, it was different and having an alternative is always good.
Murdo: Killzone is too weighty for me. I enjoy the campaign a lot but only because of the story. Running felt slow and sluggish after playing Call of Duty for so long and some guns felt weak. I’ll be buying Killzone 3 but only for the story. I might dabble in the online if some other TSAians do.
Colin: I’m pretty sure a lot will after the success of the clan in Killzone 2.
Murdo: We had a clan? Oh shi…
Colin: Someone said that once! I almost died.
Blair: The added ‘realism’ in GTAIV ruined it for me. I completely disliked it, the series was much better when it was OTT. The minute I stood on the bonnet of a car and then promptly fell off in GTAIV, I disliked it.
Colin: I hated that game for the very same reason. In an open world game like that I want to mess about and have fun. GTAIV felt like all the fun had been sucked out of it, it wasn’t really a GTA game then. The realism spoiled it.
Murdo: But it had Times Square… Before I descend into the horrible feeling of “I wish I was in New York,” I’ll pass it over to you, readers. Has realism been pushed too far? We haven’t even touched on sports games but that could take all day. Some genres need it to a certain extent but with so many racers at both ends of the scale and numerous other titles and genres refining their attention to detail and immersion, are we losing sight of the old (and fun) arcade way of playing games?
Origami Killer
nice read, i like realism in a game but saying that i have bought blur, for a racer i enjoy realism as i play grid and will get F1 (probably) but GT5 seems too far and after playing some of the other games i dont like it. too me no shooter is realistic, cod no and killzone no because it takes a full clip to kill someone which is ridiculous. a normal person would die with about 5 shots unless yor 50cent.altough i love kz2 campiagn and hardcore on cod online. and on the topic of gta4 i loved it. the rpg was immense and for the datial in it is a fantastic game, howver i was dissapointed when i climned on a bonet and fell off. on san andreas it was really fun to chainsaw someones car while moving lol. but still realism is great in games if you want a great atmosphere but you have to havee those unrealistic ott games just for fun.
jediryan123
I hated Gran Turismo 4 but loved GT5: Prologue, I hope they keep the race structure the same.
webby_15-0
same. i bought GT4 a few months back after renting the wonderful game that is GT5 prologue and hated it. everything was too overwhelming and complicated – dare I say it – too realistic
cc_star
IMO The more real a game gets, the more fun is sucked out of it. I play games for some escapism, fun and entertainment so I tend to favour MW2 over Op Flashpoint, GTA VC & SR2 over GTAIV and of course Split/Second & Burnout over GT.
I mean how real are games going to get, are you going to have to press a button to make your character breathe… what about guiding them through an 8hr shift at work before you can get to some of their particular brand of sterile action. I mean Alone In the Dark had you blinking, for christ’s sake.
There’s a reason you don’t see Jack Bauer going toilet, charging his phone or grabbing lunch
Sod all that, just let me at the entertainment
E8_BALL_
flip side thats why i love (only play) h/core modes
for realism
imo a game like cod needs to give the choice
which thankfully it does
eg im a topspin fan over virtua tennis everytime
bunimomike
Great stuff. We do seem to be trying to attain ultra-realistic environments with the likes of GT and all in the name of what… to boast about realism? That’s fine but never, ever lose sight of the fact that games are supposed to be entertaining. Not always fun, but entertaining, definitely. Gripping, scary, thrilling, emotional, laugh-out-loud hilarious.
GTA was good but I agree with the sentiment that they simply took the whole place too seriously. I want the Police Camera Action style car chases back. Over the top controls which led to incredible scenes on and off the road.
Kaz (PD) has already stated he suffers with OCD which makes him the worst person in the world to head a project like GT. Sure, let him guide the details but for god’s sake, never lose sight of the goal. To entertain through enjoyment. I am still open to them blowing me away but have seen nothing to convince me that such a thing will happen… for now.
The balance is often hard to achieve.
CaptainMurdo
Did we just agree, kinda? ;)
bunimomike
Mark this moment in your diary, fella. Wednesdays would appear to be our day off for rivalry! :-)
Foxhound_Solid
Realism is good sometimes, its nice to have variation though I mean if I want a Fun Sim Racer I always go for Gran Turismo. If I wanted to just scream around and kick off I would go for PGR3 [used to play it all the time whilst waiting for PS3 to release – cracking game series MSR and PGR] . I think its really down to personal preference and what you look for in a game….
moshi
Im sitting on the fence on this debate as I can appreciate and love both sides of the realism/arcade variety . It is all down to fun at the end of the day
webby_15-0
i think the only games that HAVE to be realistic are sport sims like Smackdown Vs Raw, FIFA, that tiger woods game. if they arent then it just ruins the whole experience of what its like to be a sports star. also i agree with you on GTA IV; on san andreas and vice city, i usually just went around killing people and just having fun, but in GTA IV the realism was so high that I actually felt sorry for them cowerring in fear and so most times couldn’t get myself to pull the trigger on that poor civilian.
Tanzil
I adored all the GT’s but not quite as much for 3: a-spec, still liked it though. i know the realism isn’t everyone’s thing and i accept that but these debates are a nice insight. I for one am getting GT5 day-one and probably the same for NFS (looks like burnout and NFS mixed which is the best concoction EVAH!
3shirts
I like GT for the very reason that it is unashamedly realistic. While most games should be fun above all else, I actually want GT to be a simulator. I want to sit with my Logitech wheel and feel what it is like to drive an F40 or a GTR or a Le Mans car as close to reality as I can.
I’m never gonna be able to do that so it’s nice to get close with a ‘game’.
That said, I think GT stands almost alone in that. What I want from most games is fun, and I don’t ca
3shirts
..care how ‘realistic’ it is as long as the rules are set from the off and they don’t change them cheaply later on
ScottW-1976
I dont see GT5 as being realistic TBH. Yes, it might look and sound lovely but misses out on the things that make a “Racing” game realistic. With no mechanical and limited cosmetic damage, lazy AI and a lack of weather I dont see it as being particularly realistic at all.
bunimomike
Agreed, but it pretends to be and strives to be in some departments. It’s the ultimate con! :-)
ScottW-1976
I agreed with your post above Mike, games are supposed to be about enjoyment first and tech later, not the other way around. From what I’ve seen PD haven’t moved anything on, just aded more joyless content.
bunimomike
Which, for someone like 3shirts, is fine but it excludes so many buyers. Thing is, if PD decided to tackle the shortcomings a lot of us fear they wouldn’t alienate someone like 3shirts, I’m sure.
The one thing that’s jarring about trying to achieve realism is when one single thing in the game doesn’t look or feel realistic. It’s like watching a set wobble on a sitcom. No matter how realistic the apartment looks, if we see a fake wall/door wobble then the whole thing smoke-and-mirrors act comes metaphorically tumbling down.
ScottW-1976
But reading 3shirts comments i think he’s basiccally just confusing an excellent graphics and physics engine with “realism”.
If PD had added realistic crash damage (both visually and mechanically), agressive and passive AI traits and weather that affects grip levels etc to GT5 I’m sure he would enjoy the game even more.
People like CC_star as an example, will never be fans of GT as it will always be too sterile an experience for them. But games like Burnout and Split Second do nothing for me personally as they have a too “arcadey” feel.
Each to their own.
cc_star
Hey,
Don’t say never A-Spec was great
;)
3shirts
@ScottW – I have been playing games since the 80’s. In the words of Shania Twain, graphics do not impress me much (she said that right?).
You are contradicting yourself though, a good physics engine IS a big part of realism. GT’s physics does a great job of simulating the feel of a real car. Sure there are things it doesn’t do like mechanical and physical damage but you are looking at realism too broadly. It doesn’t have to be 100% real in every respect to be any degree of ‘realistic’, what is does so well is model the behaviour of lots of different cars extremely accurately.
ScottW-1976
TBH though 3shirts, unless you have driven the cars in question, how do you know how realistic it is?
The problem for me is that the game sits between 2 stools. It offers dynamic realism on one hand, but then spoils it by making the cars invincible and the AI dull.
In my 34th year now myself and have been playing games going back to the 80’s also, though not sure why that is relevant?
Pitcher-T
@Scott
I love the gt series for the fact that they are so realistic. And yes they are. I drive a corsa and can say that after purchasing one in gt4 (an old game may I add) that it felt exactlythe same steering wise. It’s not going to be able to simulate much more with out creating a pod to imitate g forces.
Also I read somewhere that a car company (I think Audi) used gt to demonstrate the driving capabilities of their new car. That’s realistic driving in my opinion. And btw the title does say the real “driving” simulator, not racing.
But I must agree they need to pull their socks up with the ai drivers.
3shirts
Of course I haven’t driven ALL the cars but I have driven some of them and can tell from that that they do handle realistically in GT. My understanding of the nature of the physics engine means that adding cars according to their real world statistics ensures a close representation of behaviour in the game.
The point about playing games since the 80’s was that I am used to every level of graphical polish so a game being spectacular looking will not blind me to it’s weaknesses.
ScottW-1976
That was the “Arcadey” one, right? ;)
yogdog
I loved gt3, best game in the series by far, theres been no improvement in anything except graphics and more cars since then.
ScottW-1976
I agree Yog. Dont remember 4 that well and got bored of Prologue pretty quickly once the initial “WOW, look how good that looks” factor wore off.
If what we have seen is representative of the final release I am very disappointed in PD.