Blair and I often sit up late at night debating life’s little problems and events. Lately, we’ve been talking a lot about Minis, Apps and the chances of seeing them cross over. Then we thought it might be even better to let you, the community, join in.
Blair: A lot of iPhone devs seem to be spreading out to other consoles. We’ve seen Angry Birds and Flight Control announced for Sony consoles, what do you think of this? It’s surely a good thing that they are becoming available for everyone, right?
Murdo: I wouldn’t say so. Much of their success has come from being so portable and cheap. Titles, like Angry Birds, benefit from the 59p price tag and the iDevice platform is perfect for them. They should stay where they are.
Blair: Angry Birds might have been 59p at the start, but with its jump over to Nokia, it’s gone up in price to £1.50 for ‘Level Pack 1’. Surely a full game with all the level packs would be worth £3 or £4?
Murdo: Angry Birds for the iPad is £3 and I still feel that is over-priced. The style of game doesn’t warrant a price tag above £2, although Rovio Mobile have done an excellent job of adding maps etc. Flight Control was an instant hit on the iPhone but without the touchscreen, it won’t feel the same. I’m glad there are rumours of Move support but that also rules out a Mini.
Blair: I’ve spent hours playing Angry Birds, I think that for £3 I’d get more than my moneys worth. Flight Control is great and I think it would work really well with Move but I don’t think it would be a great game for a home console. I can see Angry Birds working well but Flight Control would just come out when I want to show my friends what Move is all about.
Murdo: But would it really feel the same? The novelty of the iPad/iPhone is the touchscreen and how easy a game like Angry Birds plays. The games would play differently if an analog stick is used. No more flicking or multi-touch. Move would also feel very gimmicky for me. Playing Flight Control with Move be like scrolling through the Wii Home screen, very much a point and click game.
Blair: I agree that the touchscreen controls are fantastic for both of these games, but I can’t see the analog stick taking away too much from Angry Birds. As for Flight Control Move, it would be really precise and as easy as drawing a line. Anyway, enough about these games, what about games like Peggle and Plants Vs. Zombies?
Murdo: Funnily enough, I own Peggle on PC, PS3 and iPhone but I have only ever played the iPhone version. It is just so much easier to use and, again, the portable nature of the product is its biggest selling point. And Plants Vs. Zombies. Well I have that for the iPhone and iPad and I doubt I’ll be buying that on the Xbox in September. After ten minutes with the iPad’s multi-touch screen, the game flows so well and playing it becomes a delight. Whereas, I already feel the 360 port will suffer from clunky controls. Firstly there’s the terrible D-Pad. Alright, you could probably use the analog stick, but even that will get tiresome. These games belong on anything with either a touchscreen or mouse.
Blair: I’ve never played Peggle on an iDevice, but I’ve played a lot of it on the PC, and I think it works really well with the cursor and big screen. The PS3 version doesn’t have great controls, but it’s still the same amount of fun. Just less… accurate. I’ve never actually played Plants Vs. Zombies but I can imagine the 360 D-Pad being an annoyance. I think these PopCap games really belong on the PC. Tower defence on the PC is as easy as pointing and clicking, literally.
Murdo: It would be interesting to see some of the Apps, not games, ported. During the announcement and introduction of Minis, it was widely suggested that we would see Apps appear on the store but so far there has been nothing. Obviously the PSP isn’t as connected as the iPhone but a Map Mini would be a useful addition, or even just a Utilities feature. PS3 versions could also have many more features, with perhaps a facebook app similar to the 360’s. It does do everything remember…
Blair: Yeah, I’d love to see apps that you could use in-game on the PS3. TweetDeck? Yes please. But this is all just dreaming; we’re unlikely to get these kind of apps on the PS3 whilst not even having a stable internet browser, nevermind one that works in-game! PSP apps could work, but I’m not entirely sure about this. It would be an iPhone port too far.
Murdo: There’s definitely potential but it would have to be done in a very precise way. In-game usage would require a lot of hard work from Sony’s end. We all know how long the in-game XMB took and that’s still sluggish. With the rumours of a new browser coming and all these iPhone ports now console-bound, could we be seeing the maturation of the Minis and a new war between the console giants over additional Apps? I still believe certain games should be left where they are but the possibilities of other projects following on is an interesting thought.
Blair: As I said, it will be a good thing for more people to experience these games, and if Move is incorporated, it would be even better. I don’t like the idea of Apps too much, but I’d happily welcome any iPhone game to the minis or XBL Indie Games service. Well, we’ve talked enough, let’s see what the readers think of iPhone games on bigger platforms.
CaptainMurdo
This was done before the confirmation of Move for Flight Control, hence the uncertainty. :)
Charmed_Fanatic
£3 – over that is too much for a iPhone port
teflon
The big deficiency with the PSP minis is that when played on the PS3 they’re run through an emulation layer, using the PSP assets.
What really needs to happen (though more complicated for them) is that each mini includes a 2nd engine for the PS3 version, letting it run at 720p, as well as higher quality assets so it doesn’t look like complete arse.
This is where iPhone/Pad apps are going. Sure, some of them are iPad only, but many are cross purpose, with high resolution assets for the iPad and iPhone 4 integrated into them. The main difference being that all the iApps are dead simple to run on another device since the CPU and GPU is very similar, which isn’t the case with the PSP/3.
Get it together, Sony.
jimmy-google
I’ve never used minis on the PS3. Probably due to the lack of trophy support and too many decent PSN/Blu-ray games to play.
bunimomike
Murdo – I don’t want to sound harsh but I simply think you’re wrong. Obviously it’s just my opinion but the novelty of touch-screen gaming wears off very quickly. Not just that but it also highlights shocking limitations. There’s not one game I play on the iPhone where I use “screen buttons” to play with. God, they’re awful! I know many friends in the same camp. However, games that feel natural with touch are superb (Angry Birds, etc). That doesn’t mean they can’t work with Move (not implying you said otherwise) and it’s a great way for the likes of Rovio to bring their fantastic game to a different platform. Not just that but people love PSP games and small PSN games so why not have something that you want to play for 20 minutes or so. It’s actually the fastest growing sector in gaming. It’s the reason why 50% of gamers are female (in the UK, at least). As initially hard as that was to believe the explanation hit the nail on the head. Hardcore female gamers probably rose a smidge but casual (Facebook, Wii, etc) games are exploding! Somewhere in there, the iPhone games sit perfectly. God knows Apple are over the moon with the sales platform they’ve created (iTunes) and Sony need to take note.
There are people out there like me who wants to see Angry Birds or PvZ or Flight Control … all with Move support. I know it’s not a mouse replacement but, damn, it’s a hell of a lot closer than DS3 controller and we get real buttons too!
Developers will find a happy mix with how to keep the Move controller happy but games either side of the core games (maybe touch games one end, hardcore games the other end) still have a place on the PS3 with Move support.
Finally, the games that suffer on touch-based devices will control supremely well with real buttons (read: a real controller). There are so many little games which I’d love to try out on the iPhone but I turn down instantly because of the controls. This is where the PSP and minis on the PS3 can succeed.
*breathes*
bunimomike
Random aside: The iPhone has a bigger portion of the mobile gaming market than the PSP. Bonkers!
jimmy-google
Most people I know that use their PSPs do so at home rather than on the move. The Playstation Portable has never really been that portable.
cc_star
It’s games are blockbuster games better suited to sofa based gaming than when sat on a bus or whatever
jimmy-google
I guess Fifa is a blockbuster game to some degree but they tend not to play the “blockbusters” I think you’re talking about.
It’s mostly minis, fifa, LBP and some racing games. All of which are very pratical to play on the move. The console though isn’t. Carrying UMD’s a a machine that doesn’t fit in your pocket means you’ll probably leave it at home.
An iphone on the other hand is slim and only has a hard drive and as it’s your phone you’re going to make sure you have it on you. An iPad has more of the issues the PSP has.
cc_star
Touch Screen is far from a novelty
I think the iPhone is actually platform of choice because of the touch screen for a number of the best games over the past few years.
Critter Crunch, Flight Control, Peggle, PvZ etc… Other games like Civ Rev show you can have tactics and depth, sure its not great for replicating the tide of generic AAA games & their experiences that litter the PS360 release calendar but it is a great interface especially when used with gyroscopes, accelerometers etc
It’s all down to a developers implementation of the UI.
Although Touch Cricket had some bugs (for me, but not so much LordMooch apparently) it was a lesson in adapting a UI for the medium and creating an accessible whole new gaming experience along the way.
I do think the addition of a joypad style accessory (even just D-Pad & 2 buttons) would be great for expanding game types on the platform, but what is already there with the touch and motion interfaces is probably more relevant to the future of gaming than yet another incremental update to a shooter or sports game on the HD consoles.
jimmy-google
If the next PSP comes with touch screen and motion control I probably won’t get it. Motion control is fine at home but I’ve never wanted it in a hand held device for the simple reason that I want the screen to stay in the same place.
Touch screen can work for some games and apps but personally I’ve always found it slow and very inaccurate on every device I’ve used. They always struggle to pick up when I actually touch the screen.
Buying a phone with touch screen was the worst decision I’ve made for a while (when it comes to electronics).
bunimomike
You have Homer Simpson fingers don’t you? ;-)
cc_star
It’s all about giving developers options, if it had the touch screen it would appeal to 4 times the people the current model appeals too, likewise if it had a 2nd analogue nubbin it would be better for other game types than the compromised ‘ports’ we’re used to seeing.
If the options are there, developers will use them in new and creative ways.
re: phone. I used a my missus phone the other day which has buttons – It felt awkward and weird, and old fashioned, I don’t think I could ever go back from the lightening fast swishing, swiping and pressing – saying that, I hardly ever make a phone call on my phone I mainly use for mobile access to the internet and gaming & stuff.
jimmy-google
I was wondering which mobile will be the first to drop the voice calls part. I never use it any more.
Options is good to a point but it also ups the cost of a device. I also have to resort to the keypad on my phone because I get too many errors from the touch screen.
I probably do have homer simpson fingers, my phone does keep give me a strange message.
“The fingers you have used to dial are too fat. To obtain a special dialing wand, please mash the keypad with your palm now.”
bunimomike
We all need head-wands from time-to-time.
jacklum
Critter Crunch is miles better on the PS3 and controls perfectly fine with the d-pad.
KeRaSh
Critter Crunch for the PS3 shows how much better an iPhone game can get if ported correctly. :P
CaptainMurdo
And I think you’re (slightly) wrong. As cc said, touchscreen is definitely not a novelty. How can one of the biggest portable gaming platforms survive for over three years entirely on novelty?
I agree some games aren’t suited to the touchscreen control method but for games like Flight Control and PvZ, it is perfect. I’ve tried some FPS games on both the iPad and iPhone and while it’s usable, it doesn’t compare to having two analogs and a clicky button.
Move may be able to bridge the gap between DualShocks and touchscreen but to me, it still won’t play as well. I’m definitely willing to give it a chance and maybe revisit this debate at a later date.
bunimomike
You started it with your “The novelty of the iPad/iPhone is the touchscreen and how easy a game like Angry Birds plays.” comment! hahahaha :-) Although reading it through again I think it was open to misinterpretation, which I probably did. ;-) Soz.
PvZ on the PC is still the ultimate game. The mouse is super accurate and fast. I know it’s great on the iPad but you should see me on the PC! The worst version (from a controls perspective) will be the Xbox but the game-types look top banana! Imagine that with Move support and it’ll be superb fun. Ok, not as accurate as mouse on the PC but excellent nonetheless. I find touch-screen on PvZ not too bad but a bit tricky once a mobile game demands more from you than the simple controls of Flight Control, etc.
Don’t get me wrong, I want this sort of game for mobile gaming and home gaming but the static version will hopefully always be king if it can nail the controls (which I feel that Move may well do).
Irrespective of my contrasting opinion, it’s a great debate and one I wish Sony would read! :-)
CaptainMurdo
Haha, yeah I never meant it to come across as a silly-little feature, like the Wii’s waggle. Appeal probably would have been a better choice.
I’ve never PC gamed so can’t comment on speed etc but I’d imagine the accuracy with a mouse is insane, something which I think touchscreen does well to mimic (unless you have sausage fingers). After using the Wii-mote I might have some preconceived ideas about motion control and the accuracy but hopefully Move will take this to a whole new level.
And, thanks. :)
jimmy-google
The one great thing to come out of games on the iPhone is that it lets a lot of developers create games and take a few risks with them. The good ones then come to the surface and we only see the decent (or decent selling ones) on the PSP. If the game is good enough then bring on the port.
I’ve picked up more and more minis (even more now I have PS Plus) but I still tend to go back to Soduko. Even most of the mini’s require longer than my 10 minute bus journey to finish.
Despite playing on them a lot I wouldn’t play them at all if I didn’t have a PSP Go and the PSP 1000/2000/3000 has never fitted in my pocket. So it alwasys stayed at home unless I had a good reason to pack it.
As for price, I don’t think I’ve paid more than £1.50 for a mini because of reduced price PSN cards, special offers and PS Plus.
ttuna
I do think a device like move would be a great substitute for a touch screen and that’s why I hope flight control works well. It’ll give others the incentive to port over games that are awesome on the iPhone like PVZ etc. But I hope they charge a decent price. I find minis are too highly priced for what some of them are but £3 is about the max they should be really. Over that and it’s harder to justify an impulse buy.
jimmyjrg
The controls for Angry Birds would be fine if they were as simple as holing X and using the L stick to position the bird, let go of X to launch and tap X again for their secondary attack.