TSA Debate: Exclusives
What is the significance of exclusive titles for this generation of consoles and who has the stronger line-up? Let's discuss...Published 05/05/2009 at 21:30 by colossalblue
As part of the exciting evolution of TSA we are trialling a new feature called “TSA Debate” in which we will be discussing a topic, either with one of our regular readers or amongst ourselves. If you want to get involved you can drop a line to Liam[at]TheSixthAxis[dot]com with “Debate” in the subject line and let him know who you are and what you’d like to discuss. Once you’ve read the discussion you can let us know all about how you think on the matter in the comments below.
In this TSA Debate I sat down with one of our members (Raen, or Kris from the Second Nature Podcast) who doesn’t own a Playstation 3. In fact he’s currently the proud owner of a rather sick Xbox but don’t hold that against him, as you’ll see, he’s a nice chap who talks sense and doesn’t rise to my fanboy-baiting…
Peter: I recently bought an Xbox 360 and in the 10-14 months I have before it overheats and melts I’d like to sample the exclusive content.
Kris: It was nice to see you jump over to multi-platform.
Peter: Thanks, if you ever get yours fixed maybe we can join forces in Albion sometime? For the PS3’s best disc-based exclusives I would suggest LittleBigPlanet, Metal Gear Solid 4 and Killzone 2. I’d like to know what you would put forward as the best existing examples of exclusive titles for the 360? We can discuss upcoming exclusives later, if the Xbox has any planned…
Kris: The exclusive content line-up for the PS3 is pretty strong overall, particularly in the digital distribution titles. However for the best exclusives on the 360 side I’d have to go with Mass Effect, Project Gotham Racing 4 and Gears of War 2. I know leaving Halo 3 off that list leaves me open for miles of abuse from any fanboyz, but in all honesty I think the 360 has stronger titles than one core franchise.
Peter: Definitely, I don’t think you have to worry about 360 fanboys here.
Kris: On the XBLA Geometry Wars, Braid and, while I haven’t personally played it, Castle Crashers is meant to be pretty fantastic.
Peter: I’d put forward Flower, Super Stardust HD and Rag Doll Kung Fu as three of the best PSN Store titles. It was the exclusives that prompted me to buy an Xbox, I just don’t like the thought that I’m missing anything.
Kris: I think owning both platforms is the place where everyone would be if they could afford to be in that position.
Peter: As much as I like to poke fun at the failure rate and the terrible heat and noise issues it is a very good console and I think anyone that is a fan of gaming should own one when they can afford it. Back on topic, and ignoring the fact that Mass Effect was only a console exclusive, it appeared on “Games for Windows”, I think it’s interesting that all the disc based exclusives you picked and two of the three I picked are first party published titles.
Kris: Well the first party lineup this generation is getting a lot of attention, and deservedly so. Sony, Microsoft and even Nintendo have really bumped their game up this generation, and while exclusives outside of that area are worthwhile, it just seems that the manufacturers are using the first party titles to really show what they can do. The first party devs are also getting a lot more support as can be seen by the caching mechanic in Halo 3 and the lack of disk installs in Killzone 2.
Peter: Much has been made of Microsoft’s policy of throwing money at the exclusivity issue, primarily around DLC – which doesn’t seem to be working if you believe the sales figures. Do you think that Microsoft’s policy of breaking Sony exclusivity is more sensible than Sony’s policy of focusing on first party titles that can’t be bought out?
Kris: The DLC exclusivity issue was always going to be a gamble. I just don’t think that many gamers have both a PS3 and a 360, given the cost of consoles in this generation. The 360 is getting towards impulse purchase territory now, but I still think that the majority still only have one or the other. So Microsoft pretty much only had a very small number that the DLC was going to convince to buy it on the 360 over the PS3. I just don’t feel that DLC is ever going to be a system seller really.
Peter: I tend to think that the selections we’ve made seem to prove Sony right in their statement that third party exclusives are irrelevant this generation.
Kris: Tekken 6 would have almost certainly sold me a PS3, but that’s the only third party exclusive I can think of that I actually care about. Valkyria Chronicles is really the only other third party exclusive that I can think of, across the whole generation that anyone actually cares about.
Peter: Metal Gear Solid 4?
Kris: Fair enough but my point is that Sony made that statement after having two very high profile games in Tekken 6 and Final Fantasy XIII stolen from under their nose, so it seems worth taking with a pinch of salt. I think the bigger question is will we continue to see third party exclusives? Given the amount of money that having both consoles can add to a publishers bank account is it worth them keeping title exclusive?
Peter: I really don’t think it is worth keeping a third party title exclusive any more. To be honest, unless there is heavy investment from the platform holder, almost to the point where it is a second party title, I just don’t see the financial benefits. Development teams are so big now that coding for two systems, or more commonly porting from one to the other, is not such a big drag as it was in the 8 and 16 bit days.
Kris: That’s pretty much it. Unless they throw money at it, basically taking the Microsoft route, there really is no point in staying exclusive for any third party developer. And going the second party route just doesn’t make sense; you’re getting the worst of both first and third party support with none of the benefits that the others would offer.
Peter: So, the first party titles become paramount as system sellers. Basically we’ve come to the conclusion that Sony was right all those months ago.
Kris: First party have, to me, always been the primary sellers. I mean going back Sonic and Mario were the original system sellers really. I’d say that the last gen or two, where third party title have taken on added significance, are anomalies more than anything else. We’re currently seeing the move back to focus on first party titles, the way it should be really.
Peter: Both platform holders seem to realise it now with third party exclusives becoming almost non-existent. It seems to be only the fanboys that worry about exclusivity. Even the big DLC exclusive deals don’t seem to make a difference to multiplatform sales.
Kris: Sony’s lineup this year really is stellar. The only things that spring to mind for the 360 are Halo ODST (worst title ever) and Alan Wake, which may well turn into a Duke Nukem Forever if they don’t announce more information soon. On the other side Sony has White Knight Chronicles, MAG, inFamous, Heavy Rain and God of War 3.
Peter: Sony certainly have more first party titles set for release this year but does that mean they have used up all their development and next year will be barren while Microsoft have a glut of, as yet unannounced, projects coming to fruition?
Kris: Unless Microsoft have held a huge amount of stuff back for E3, a really unprecedented move, they may well be left scrambling for content to support the console over the next year. However, as you state, Sony may have the same issue next year. I guess Heavy Rain may be next year, and I can see MAG getting bumped back. Apart from that they’re in the same position as Microsoft are this year really. I’m interested to see what Microsoft have got hidden back for this year’s E3. I mean as a new 360 owner what would you like to see coming out of the show this year?
Peter: I’ve been enjoying Fable 2 and Mass Effect. I think there could be some news on Mass Effect 2 but that may be multiplatform. I’d also like to see another iteration of Project Gotham announced, something to push Gran Turismo and compete over something other than the “action RPG” genre that Microsoft seems so keen to monopolise. I hope Microsoft have held back some big announcements for E3 otherwise my new investment might be nothing but a big blow-heater for the next twelve months. It is likely that Sony are also holding some stuff back, another Sony E3 like last year would be a disaster. What exclusives do you think the 360 has that don’t have a comparable PS3 title?
Kris: In terms of non-comparable titles there’s nothing that compares to Fable or Mass Effect. Halo 3, to an extent, stands out by itself. I can’t think of any comparable arcade shooters off the top of my head. I know that the Killzone series is frequently put up as a ‘Halo Killer’ but I just don’t agree with that. Going the other way what on the PS3 doesn’t have a 360 version? Obviously Lair, Warhawk and LBP spring to mind immediately.
Peter: I think that you have to compare Halo and Killzone, they have subtle differences but on the whole they are very similar in terms of genre. I think Banjo Kazooie Nuts and Bolts has elements of creation that LittleBigPlanet does on an obviously much grander scale and Fallout 3 has elements that can be found in Fable and Mass Effect. This probably just indicates that no matter how good an exclusive is it will migrate elements to the other platform in time.
Kris: I don’t know that you can really compare Killzone 2 and Halo 3, although I’ll agree there is some crossover. And if we’re talking exclusives then talking about Fallout 3 just doesn’t work, although it certainly does have similar elements. But of course we are going to see at least some styles and concepts migrate from platform to platform and from developer to developer. It’s the way the industry evolves, although I think you’ll rarely see a direct clone. That’s why with the top tier titles there often isn’t anything that’s a direct link from one to the other, but more an extension of the concepts laid down in one game moving to a new title.
Peter: I would suggest that Lips and Scene It are dangerously close to being direct rip-offs of Singstar and Buzz! but I suppose there is only so much variation you can have with that kind of title and maybe that’s a discussion for another time, along with the digitally distributed stuff we didn’t get a chance to talk about. I think this is a discussion that could go on forever so let’s throw it open to the readers and see what they think.
Comments
Please note that all comments are the opinion of the individual author and not TheSixthAxis.
djhsecondnature | 05/05/2009 21:35
Team TSA: Media
890 TSA Points | Member since: Forever
Awesome read! Sounds like a conversation between Kris and myself. Also ta for the free pimpage!
Person678 | 05/05/2009 21:44
BOOM! Headshot!
1794 TSA Points | Member since: Jan 2009
No it doesn’t. It actually makes sense.
matty | 05/05/2009 21:55
Member
1331 TSA Points | Member since: Dec 2008
haha
nice read
Raen | 05/05/2009 21:55
Team TSA: Writer
3721 TSA Points | Member since: Mar 2009
Yeah we would of got distracted
wedgehog | 05/05/2009 21:48
Friendly
586 TSA Points | Member since: Mar 2009
Interesting article … thanks TSA!
Lorcan | 05/05/2009 22:28
Team TSA: Writer
1248 TSA Points | Member since: Oct 2008
Well, exclusives matter for me.
I would have no problem anymore buying a 360, but there arn’t enough exclusives for it that appeal to me.
I bought Lost Planet and played it at my friends because that wasn’t supposed to be coming out on the PS3, I am tempted by Gears of War which looks amazing, and I’ve heard that the story in Mass Effect is amazing, and I hear Alan Wake is going to be similar, which could tempt me over. But really, for the cost of the console, and Xbox Live and then the games and all that shibang, I just don’t think it would be worth it.
The PS3 on the other hand has all the games I like! Ratchet and Clank is the most amazing thing ever and so is Little Big Planet, Uncharted, God of War, Heavy Rain, and most importantly of all . . . Metal Gear Solid 4.
I ordered my PS3 without even thinking after watching an MGS4 trailer. I got into all the franchises on the PS2, and they carried me onto the PS3 where I’ve found a lot more games that interest me that I can only get here. Motorstorm is fantastic too. These games just don’t have a counterpart exclusive for the 360. It’s all down to taste really. The 360 doesn’t have many exclusives, and of those it has, only a few of them appeal to me. Nearly all the PS3 exclusives, on the other hand, appeal to me.
Nothing on the Playstation store/XBLA would tempt me to either console if I was in the middle. But the games I’ve played from the store have been fantastic and I’m glad I’ve played them. The only thing that could be on the stores the would have the power to sway me is if Sony got the PSone games up. -THAT- would get me over. I love a good nostalgia inducing romp!
Gamoc | 05/05/2009 22:32
Team TSA: Content Manager
1216 TSA Points | Member since: Forever
Significance of exclusives? They sell consoles.
Raen | 05/05/2009 23:00
Team TSA: Writer
3721 TSA Points | Member since: Mar 2009
No. Big exclusives do. Sometimes. For example Halo 3 and MGS 4 did. Others less so.
Gamoc | 06/05/2009 01:38
Team TSA: Content Manager
1216 TSA Points | Member since: Forever
You’ve got a point, but it’s also the amount of exclusives. Fat Princess, the Pixeljunk games, etc might not sell a PS3, but a buildup of brilliant exclusive PSN games may do so.
Valkyria Chronicles isn’t a big game, but it’s PS3 exclusive, and it’s good. If Killzone 2 didn’t end up being the brilliant god of FPS it did, and Uncharted wasn’t as great as it was, but they merely ‘good’ games, a wealth of ‘just’ good games would still sell the system just as well as a smaller number of massive exclusives would.
Alex_Assassin_08 | 05/05/2009 22:32
Member
749 TSA Points | Member since: Feb 2009
thats the best, most informed read i’ve had this week
love this feature!
seedaripper1973 | 05/05/2009 23:10
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1730 TSA Points | Member since: Forever
good read lads…kudos
FruitOfDoom | 05/05/2009 23:16
Member
481 TSA Points | Member since: Dec 2008
Every fanboy should be forced to read this! An amazing example of a sensible debate where valid points are put forward, and interesting opinions are shared!
I think the 360 has no notable answer to LBP, Metal Gear Solid 4 nor Motorstorm. And PSN titles are in a different league, I’m looking at you Flower.
I also think the PSN could benefit from a good hard look at xbox live and it’s approach to incorporating cross game invites, messaging and acheivements into each gaming experience.
Lorcan | 05/05/2009 23:22
Team TSA: Writer
1248 TSA Points | Member since: Oct 2008
Well, fanboys certainly should be reading it with the fuss it’s making on N4G. But to be honest, I doubt many of them are even looking past the title.
ChoZanWan | 06/05/2009 00:45
Member
445 TSA Points | Member since: May 2009
Trouble is, MS are killing Sony in after sales DLC. Nothing for Fallout 3, GTA4 has Lost and Damned, which would’ve made a fortune at retail if it was packaged as a standalone title.
Gamers have to look beyond the original purchase in more and more cases with the next generation.
cc_star | 06/05/2009 01:39
Team TSA: Writer
7874 TSA Points | Member since: Forever
Sales would indicate otherwise, with multi-platform titles putting in a good showing on the PS3.
Games like Tomb Raider actually outsold the version on the 360, and that has DLC exclusive to the 360.
A higher percentage of PS3 owners actually own GTA IV, than 360 owners although the volumes are higher on the 360 due to the larger install base.
I’m pleased to see Fallout’s DLC is as bug ridden as the actual game.
3rd party exclusives may well be consigned to the past, but Microsoft’s gamble with exclusive DLC to disguise a pretty bare release calendar hasn’t been the greatest success, in fact you could argue that it hasn’t worked at all, because it hasn’t lead to higher percentage of 360 owners buying the game over the percentage of PS3 owners who bought the game, those that did buy the games most likely would have bought them anyway.
dreamhunk | 06/05/2009 00:38
Member
4 TSA Points | Member since: May 2009
well if you want to debate exclusives! pc gaming has the must exclusives out evey platform. In fact pc gaming has genres that are not even found on consoles like TBS,RTT,RTS,MMOS,murder mistery, space sims, sims, oceam games etcs. Here is a list of just some of pc gaming tittles
Raen | 06/05/2009 01:31
Team TSA: Writer
3721 TSA Points | Member since: Mar 2009
Well yes of course the PC has a variety of exclusives. However the point of the article was comparing the PS3 and 360.
Gamoc | 06/05/2009 01:59
Team TSA: Content Manager
1216 TSA Points | Member since: Forever
TBS, RTS, MMOs, space sims are all on/coming onto consoles. TBS: Civ Revo (which is great), RTS: C&C Red Alert 3, MMOs: Oh god, take your pick from Sony’s MMO lineup, Space Sims? Well, Warhawk 2 is meant to be in space… Sims is on NGage for christ’s sake.
Murder Mystery? Sorry, no thanks. What’s an ocean game?
And we don’t appreciate you advertising what we assume is your blog.
jediryan123 | 06/05/2009 01:10
Member
22 TSA Points | Member since: Nov 2008
Great! I love all these new community focused articles, keep up the good work
dreamhunk | 06/05/2009 02:10
Member
4 TSA Points | Member since: May 2009
well why waste your money on a consoles when you can get more bang for your buck on th pc?
I wouldn’t buy a ps3 in a ression no way, not even if it had alot of exclusives. In fact eimpre total war sold alot more than killzone 2 did.
cc_star | 06/05/2009 02:21
Team TSA: Writer
7874 TSA Points | Member since: Forever
The article is a conversation between two console owners, one of which has just bought the console.
It isn’t a debate about PC gaming, so I’m not actually sure why you keep bringing it up, Yes PC gaming not only has more exclusives, but also has more game in total, and if this was an article of PC gaming then I could understand why you mention it.
and as for Empire Total War selling more than Killzone… quite a few games have sold more than Killzone, but again I don’t understand what relevance that has in a conversation about the 360 & PS3.
Raen | 06/05/2009 10:18
Team TSA: Writer
3721 TSA Points | Member since: Mar 2009
A PC gets more bang for your buck? Really? I bought a 360 about 2 years ago for £200. It can still play every game released.
I bought a PC last year for £400 and it would already struggle to play newer games.
But as CC said I’m not really sure why you’re bringing it up. You could equally bring up that the Wii has sold my consoles. That’s not we were looking at in the article. As a long term 360 owner who doesn’t own a PS3 I was giving my opinion on both line ups to a long term PS3 owner who’s just purchased a 360.
mornelithe | 06/05/2009 19:15
Member
2 TSA Points | Member since: May 2009
I can to Raen, the point is, I can run them all at 1920×1200 resolution, FSAA (when necessary), DX10.1 @ rock solid 60fps+. Whereas, the consoles would gasp and die, if they were pushed to those extremes. And that’s IF the hardware doesn’t fail on you, no, it’s not an attempt to start a failure rate discussion, the fact is, my last PC lasted me 7 years before i replaced it…but it still works. When your 360 has reached the 7 year mark, let me know.
By the way, I realize that this is a debate regarding exclusives on the consoles, however, the point that people are attempting to make is, there’s only one console with exclusives, when you factor in the PC market, and that’s the PS3.
Morne
Paragonknight | 06/05/2009 10:57
Member
3 TSA Points | Member since: Dec 2008
PC sucks. You have to continuously upgrade to keep up with the future releases. It’s far more expensive than any console.
I’d rather worry about what games to buy than the whole setup.
mornelithe | 06/05/2009 16:57
Member
2 TSA Points | Member since: May 2009
I disagree, while the upfront cost of a PC does indeed overshadow a console, there are many steps you can take to curb that cost, additionally, the PC stays far more competitive than the console as time progresses.
Over the course of 6 months, I hand picked a mobo, gpu, cpu, RAM, HDD’s, box, CPU cooler, optical drives and cables… And paid for them, piece by piece by piece. I went high-end, for the most part, however, I cut corners/costs only in very certain areas that wouldn’t directly impact performance.
My end result, is a monster machine. Core 2 Quad, GTX260 Core 216, 4g if DDR3 XMS3 RAM @ 1500mhz, and a whole lot more. Yeah, if I would’ve bought them outright, it would’ve cost me a pretty penny. However, making the purchase drag over the course of 6 months, really fit my budget perfectly. And…to this day I have no need of anything other than a PS3 for SCE’s 1st party exclusives. The rest, I get on PC, via GfW, have my buddies from XBL through the GfW service, etc.. And seriously…playing GTAIV @ 1920×1200 is just amazing
Plus, nothing beats keyboard/mouse support for FPS’.
Morne
dreamhunk | 06/05/2009 02:24
Member
4 TSA Points | Member since: May 2009
I see it’s only between consoles then carry on lol. I had thought it was about exclusives
Paragonknight | 06/05/2009 11:13
Member
3 TSA Points | Member since: Dec 2008
Nice discussion although personally I don’t plan to buy 360. I did originally but luckily I didn’t. I might get after when I have more room but expenses will increase by quite a lot as like Lorcan says most of the games I like are on the PS3. There’s only a few games on the 360 that I’m interested in and paying for online will suck.
Maybe I can kick that buffoon’s ass on the 360.
dreamhunk | 06/05/2009 12:21
Member
4 TSA Points | Member since: May 2009
I can do alot more with my pc than a consoles. why would i want to pay for an old pc that can do alot more.
this is a good read right here
http://blogcritics.org/gaming/article/the-future-of-pc-gaming-is/
Paragonknight | 06/05/2009 12:28
Member
3 TSA Points | Member since: Dec 2008
That’s great but I prefer to play games on the consoles.
mornelithe | 06/05/2009 16:01
Member
2 TSA Points | Member since: May 2009
Here’s my take on the exclusivity issue. As long as you spend some time building a PC rig that’s capable of playing Crysis/Crysis Warhead @ Enthusiast. You only need a PS3 and Wii, to play every game you want to play. Imo, MS kinda shot themselves in the foot, by not only releasing 99% of the 360 ‘exclusives’ on the PC…but even worse by allowing them to be so vastly superior to their console counterparts. Additionally, considering GfW = XBLA…and it’s free, and PC DLC usually comes as free patches… I just don’t see the point in buying a 360. Not to mention that the hardware that’s in my PC…I KNOW is manufactured professionally, and put together in a professional manner. Whether the 360 still suffers the same atrocious failure rate, doesn’t matter, the fact that it could happen, is enough to make me want to save my money for future PC/PS3 games.
That leaves needing the PS3/Wii. I’m not a huge Wii fan, tbh, so I have my PS3 for games that will never see the light of day, on any other platform. Gran Turismo 5, GoWIII??? Yes please….Twisted Metal? You bet. Sony may have made errors in their business model this gen, but they’ve still got it right with never releasing their first party titles on PC. It means you HAVE to have a PS3, if you want these games. (Emulation aside, because emulation for PS games is atrocious). But, all multiplatform titles, I buy for PC.
Just my 2 cents.
Morne
mornelithe | 06/05/2009 16:07
Member
2 TSA Points | Member since: May 2009
Hmmm, TheSixAxis’ system clock appears to be messed up….for a second, I thought I had turned 30 and didn’t even realize it was my birthday yet
Morne