Lunchtime Discussion: Dialogue
Can you hear that? ...No?
Published: 12:00, 19/08/2010 by Blair [mynameisblair].
44We’ve already had a Lunchtime Discussion about Voice, so we thought that it was a good time to take a look at how games manage dialogue without it. Games in the Legend of Zelda series, for example, only feature text dialogue. Sure, you’ll hear the occasional noise that Link makes as he defeats an enemy, and Ganon might even laugh mysteriously now and then; There’s nothing here that represents an actual conversation, other than the text dialogue between characters. And, it works.
Why does it work for Zelda and not for other games, then? Could you imagine a version of Uncharted 2 where you have to stop and press X a few times to skip through some text? It just wouldn’t work. It’s partly to do with the way Zelda is paced – you’re not battling in gunfights or climbing across rooftops very often, so you can afford to read through some lines of dialogue. Still, the storytelling is fantastic and it shows that you don’t always need real voice acting. It also emphasises that they are in a different world from ours, and that’s why the new games in the series haven’t broken the habit.
Pokémon sticks to this formula too, and while the stories aren’t action-packed thrillers, the text keeps the story focused and flowing. Another reason for text in place of voice acting is to make the game feel retro; 3D Dot Game Heroes shows this, could you really picture the citizens of Dotnia speaking with an accent of any kind?
It’s not that much of a pain to read and press continue every now and then, and it works well for RPGs and other, expansive games; Recording the voices would take a lot of time, money and space. That’s why we see a lot of handheld games with limited voice acting: it would take away from other parts of the game if they were to put a voice on all of the dialogue.
Which other games can you think of that incorporate text dialogue instead of voice acting? Does it work in these games? I’ll admit that I couldn’t do without voice acting in blockbuster games, but I don’t think it’s necessary in handheld games or the games with text dialogue that I have mentioned. What do you think? Does text take away from the characterisation, or do you manage to read it out loud in your head?
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19/08/2010 at 12:04
Member since: Forever
The text dialogue always used to be used on intro and between level scenes, the text takes nothing away from characterisation, although it wouldn’t work in Uncharted2 or any title of its class its a perfect fit for a lot of games, and is much better than terrible voice acting.
Not everyone has the luxury of super budget like the AAAAAAA titles for quality voice acting.
Voice can also ruin games, take Sonic for example the second he speaks he turns shit
19/08/2010 at 12:06
Member since: Jul 2009
Lol true about the Sonic part.
19/08/2010 at 12:08
Member since: Feb 2009
i think sonic’s voice was the least of the problems in recent sonic games.
19/08/2010 at 12:34
Member since: Forever
There is a direct correlation between how much Sonic speaks and how shit the game is.
No dialogue = best gmae eva!
Moving lips = average
Full voice acting = shitter than shit
19/08/2010 at 17:37
Member since: Feb 2009
there is a direct correlation between baldness in men and certain forms of cancer, that doesn’t mean being bald causes cancer, it just means that the same thing that causes these cancers causes baldness, too much testosterone i think.
the point being, the sonic games might have turned shit when he started speaking, but it was hardly the reason why they were shit.
making him mute again wouldn’t make the games any better, they’d still be shit.
19/08/2010 at 18:23
Member since: Forever
Well that was quite obviously a joke, but whatever
19/08/2010 at 21:28
Member since: Feb 2009
another reason why spoken dialogue is better than text, it’s hard to tell when somebody’s joking with text.
except sarcasm, i never fail to spot sarcasm. >_>
19/08/2010 at 21:32
Member since: Feb 2009
and that was more about the “voice can ruin games” comment you originally made.
in some games it can, but saying voice ruined sonic is like saying one person taking a dump in a sewage plant is going to make it smell.
i apologise if anybody was eating while reading this, everybody else was talking about their bodily functions this week, i didn’t want to miss out. :)
19/08/2010 at 12:19
Member since: Nov 2009
Before my French AS level [for which, I got a B today :)] I played Uncharted: Drake’s Fortune listening to it in French with English subtitles & the vice versa. I know it’s a bit off-topic, but I reckon it helped a bit.
19/08/2010 at 12:52
Member since: Aug 2008
See, games are educational
19/08/2010 at 13:46
Member since: Dec 2008
But in Uncharted 2, you can only put the bloody game in english, and it’s the same with every sony game that came out after June 2009… I still can’t understand why did sony do it.
19/08/2010 at 12:08
Member since: Jul 2009
I would never be able to go back to the final fantasy days or classic point and click adventures or written text now that ive played the recent updated titles with voice acting, i remember putting final fantasy 10 in and watching the intro and it just blew me away! saying that though, i still have the same enjoyment out of ff 7,8,9 on the psp that i did when i played them when originally released
19/08/2010 at 12:20
Member since: Aug 2009
One game which applies perfectly to this (and I loved) is Dragon Age 8 on the PS2, I remember at the time reviews and previews and things were saying how the voice acting added so much …. I absolutely hated it and had to switch it off, thank goodness there was an option to do so or chances are I probably wouldn’t have even finished it.
There are instances where cases can be made for both styles but that particular game really stood out on that point for me.
19/08/2010 at 12:22
Member since: Aug 2009
Dragon Quest VIII, facepalm.
19/08/2010 at 12:26
Member since: Feb 2009
personally i think not having voice work can be laziness, or lack of budget, on the part of the developer, i’ve rarely seen a game that could have had voices not had them for artistic reason.
romanticising the lack of voice work is just a smokescreen for a company like nintendo who despite being forward thinking in many way are still very much stuck in the past.
a great voice artist could help the new zelda game immensely, otherwise we’re stuck with the clunky old npcs repeating what link would have said.
“so, you’re link and you want to help me with this quest”.
but then that’s not really a voice issue, more that they don’t want to give link any dialogue.
just having text for dialogue takes you out of the game in most cases, you can’t really have people talking while they’re walking, they always have to stop and stand facing each other while dialogue boxes pop up.
they don’t need to spend a fortune on the voices either, they can get very talented voice actors without the hollywood price tag, sure patrick stewart or samuel l jackson are great and all, but if you have a tight budget i’m sure there are plenty of voice actors who could do a pretty decent job for a lot less money.
19/08/2010 at 12:33
Member since: Forever
Voice takes up an extraordinary amount of disc space that obviously isn’t feasible on handhelds.
However your Zelda example… I think it’d ruin the franchise, like reading a book where you picture the images & voices in your head and the experience is all the better for it and the characters seem even more real. If you add voices to characters that historically haven’t had them it just peels away the layers of the character in your mind.
There’s of course no reason why new characters can’t have voice actors, but some things are just better the way they are, or is just me?
19/08/2010 at 12:42
Member since: Aug 2008
I think you are right. As mentioned above, Sonic was the ultimate cool character until they gave him a voice. Then he became a dick
19/08/2010 at 13:15
Member since: Nov 2009
Most of the space on the Oblivion disk is taken up by the voices actually.
19/08/2010 at 18:14
Member since: Feb 2009
i’ve never been a big believer in that cc, a silent character isn’t more believable in my opinion, it may allow the player to put more of themselves into the character, but when you’re dealing with carefully crafted characters the character is there, he’s written to be a certain way.
a decent voice actor can make a character come alive in a way a text box never could.
if you read a batman book, what does the joker sound like in your head? how many people hear mark hamill? and how many people hear kevin conroy when batman speaks?
i read a transformers book and in my head megatron sounds like frank welker and prime like peter cullen.
personally i think they’ve got the maggie simpson syndrome, they’ve had the character without a voice for so long, they just don’t know how to give him one, or what he should sound like.
i reckon the best way to deal with it, because they’re going to have to give him a voice one day, is to just get it over with, there’ll be some flak from some fans no doubt, but if they get the right actor for the part it could be brilliant.
19/08/2010 at 18:30
Member since: Feb 2009
actually i just realised something while making that post about the book the road, a good performance by an actor will give you a hook to the character, i’m probably not explaining it very well.
they can give them a voice, i don’t mean in a literal sense, but they do that too.
words on a page, or screen, will never mean as much as hearing a person’s voice.
it connects you to that person more than just reading text of what they say.
like i said i’m probably not putting it very succinctly, but that’s what i think.
19/08/2010 at 12:49
Member since: Jul 2009
when i bought a wii, the first thing i did was buy zelda (tenner on ebay, 3 months after release! bargain!) first zelda game i intended to put effort into, i couldnt get to grips with it. can help but think, that if it had voice acting, i might have given it a little more time, that said ive never been a fan of zelda
19/08/2010 at 12:32
Member since: Feb 2009
Why is there no God of War in this story :D!
19/08/2010 at 13:56
Member since: May 2009
I removed it after I realised I talk about it far too much :P
19/08/2010 at 12:33
Member since: Feb 2009
I hate the text dialogue, I can never be bothered to read it, I just hammer which ever button it is to skip and then end up missing out of most of the story. Its my own fault I guess, but I just prefer voice acting to tell the story.
19/08/2010 at 12:45
Member since: Jul 2009
I’m not quite as impatient as Gazza but I’m not far off. I utterly loathe written-speech in games. It won’t prevent me playing a game I truly like but it still irks me. However, I do appreciate that the insane amount of dialogue in the likes of Oblivion or Dragon Age Origins makes it an administrative and cost nightmare. Every line has to be delivered to a semi-professional level.
I remember seeing a game that I had a passing interest in, recently, and when I saw the text stuff coming up it broke the deal.
Then again, I don’t read any books either so I’m in the minority here.
19/08/2010 at 12:53
Member since: Feb 2009
I hate books too, the last ficticious book that I read was Lord Of The Flies for gcse english!
19/08/2010 at 13:05
Member since: Jul 2009
Last book I read was… umm… twenty years ago. Running Man by Stephen Bachman (read: Stephen King).
19/08/2010 at 13:24
Member since: Aug 2008
How can you hate books in general?! That makes me sad. Don’t let school put you off, there are some total gems! Read anything by Douglas Adams or Tom Holt. They are light and easy to read and bloody hilarious as well.
It’s a shame that schools do such an efficient job of putting people of literature, its not all Jane Austin and Shakespeare!
19/08/2010 at 13:34
Member since: Jul 2009
unfortunatley, im of the same ilk, i just cant sit and get into a good book, the last 5 books ive managed to read over the past few years, ross kemp on gangs, ross kemp on gangs II, ross kemp on pirates, alan carrs autobiog and russell brands booky wooky. sums up mu literacy haha
19/08/2010 at 13:35
Member since: Feb 2009
@3shirts I didnt say I hated all books, I hate text dialogue in games though. I find most ficticious books boring, hence I mainly read autobiographies, and accounts of soldiers.
19/08/2010 at 13:38
Member since: Aug 2008
That’s the problem, you are reading shite!
Fiction is infinately more fun to read than non fiction. Seriously, get a Tom Holt and you will laugh your arse off
19/08/2010 at 15:48
Member since: Jun 2009
I love reading but as soon as text dialogue appears I hammer the buttons away like my life depends on it even if it involves missing large parts of the story line .
19/08/2010 at 18:19
Member since: Feb 2009
i just finished the road last week, fantastic.
also, and this has to do with this article, a little, i had seen the movie first a week or so before, and when i was reading it i heard viggo mortensen’s voice in my head when the father spoke.
20/08/2010 at 12:55
Member since: Aug 2008
Its surprising how close to the book, The Road is.. I read the book first, so I didn’t get the Viggo voice over myself. :)
.
Also, books are awesome, I cant believe how many people don’t read them, although I suspect secondary education puts a lot of people off.. Big fan of Stephen Baxter myself, that guy knows his scifi. ;)
.
On topic, Im not a fan of text dialogue myself (although it comes in handy if my wife is yapping on the phone and I cant hear the TV), but I couldnt bring myself to skip past it (or any cutscene for that matter) purely because I’d hate to miss part of the story..
19/08/2010 at 12:40
Member since: Aug 2008
I think you are right that its all about pacing. I think this is partly why the old PC games market (before voice was possible) was much more puzzle/strategy/adventure oriented except for the mindless FPSs like Doom.
If you wanted to tell a proper story with characters, humour and plot interaction you were pretty much limited to point and click adventures.
.
Nowadays, you can have masses of voice acting in a game and it can happen during the action so there is no need to slow the pace down for it.
19/08/2010 at 12:50
Member since: Aug 2008
I think it depends a lot on the game, ICO for example did a great job of storytelling with almost no dialogue at all. That wouldnt work with, say Fallout 3..
19/08/2010 at 13:06
Member since: Jul 2009
If I’m not mistaken, they invented the language for ICO.
19/08/2010 at 13:13
Member since: Aug 2010
I gave up on Fallout purely because of the ridiculous amount of text.
19/08/2010 at 15:32
Member since: May 2010
text can work in some games such as the old FF and not in others. it depends on the type of game and voice actors.