An interesting thread started yesterday in our forum concerning fanboyism, in particular in relation to the recent, scattered and rather disjointed pricing announcements of both the PlayStation Move and Kinect, and the subsequent squabbling that followed. In the first post, Chris claims that although we’ve managed to nurture and grow a community here that doesn’t run around shouting “PS3 SUX!11” we are all a little guilty of being a fanboy, even, as he calls it, the “mild kind” of fanboy.
“When we make a purchase of something like a computer, mobile phone or a games consoles we often invest a certain amount of time in thinking about a purchase and plump for either PC or Mac, iPhone, Nokia, Android or whatever, and of course, a 360 or a PS3,” says Chris. “The purchase also costs money so the investment is more of a commitment and this commitment can cause us to try and justify stuff, both to ourselves and on the internet, and I’ve been thinking about this recently and its kind of come to a conclusion.”
Chris then lists the two sets of prices for both Move and Kinect, assuming you want a full experience with two players. £204.97 for the Move (1 Move bundle, 3 additional controllers for 2 handed 2 player gaming and 2 subcontrollers which obviously can’t be used at the same as the two main controllers, but worth factoring in) and in comparison, £129.99 for the full Kinect experience. Putting aside the games and the tech for a moment, Chris says that both companies are “100% correct” in their pricing.
However, both here and on countless other sites around the web, communities from both sides have tried to disprove the Kinect pricing, saying that in theory the Move components can be built up as needed, and thus given certain circumstances the Move set up (already have a PlayStation Eye, don’t want subcontrollers, etc) can actually be cheaper.
The fact is that Kinect includes everything you need for multiplayer gaming right out of the box for that £129. Move, says Chris, enables gamers to “compromise” on the full 2 player experience so you can buy less if required. “Despite Move’s much heralded accuracy,” says Chris, “some people seem happy with balancing a DS3 whilst operating it with one hand, keeping in mind the Navi analogue trigger will be mapped to the L2 button I’ve found usable for about 2 minutes.”
“This approach in the gaming arena has of course been seen before with the Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3, only then it was the other way round,” continues Chris. “Sony produced a fact sheet which showed that a 60GB PS3, although more expensive upfront was cheaper than the 360 plus the hard drive plus the WiFi adapter, plus the Live subscription…” Xbox owners said it was good that these things were optional and you could build the package up to suit yourself, but Sony owners more or less pointed and laughed.
“How is it that now the shoe is on the other foot, with both sides of the fence now arguing the exact opposing thing they’ve been arguing about for the past 3 years?” asks Chris. “I think it highlights better than anything just how we justify stuff though manipulating points to suit our side argument, if the upfront all inclusive aspect of the PS3 was better than build your own package Xbox 360… then why is the opposite now true, just because Sony release a basic package that will probably need adding to?”
TSA Reader TheShockWave said that “with Move, you don’t have to spend the £205. If, for example, you only wanted Move to play single player, like Sorcery, Killzone and SOCOM, you only need to buy one Move controller and a [subcontroller], thus being cheaper.” He also said despite only having 2 DualShock controllers this doesn’t stop him playing 4 player local games – “I get my friends to bring their controllers, I don’t have to go out and buy two more for them to play,” he said. “The same can be said for Move.”
Other comments on the thread were based around the types of games for the Move, the accuracy, the tech, which in my opinion far outweigh anything Microsoft have shown yet and it’s really, at the end of the day, all about the games and the experience. But that’s not the point here – Chris was raising the issue that the tables have now turned, and with potentially a bigger initial outlay for the PlayStation Move (if you want to get the full multiplayer thing going on) than Kinect, is the fanboy in all of us starting to creep out?
We welcome your thoughts, as ever.
Gaztee
Interesting read! Well apart from this site the general impression I get is that nobody is getting excited about Move, as it’s just seen as copying Nintendo! The kinect however has got a
buzz about it! I fully expect it to be the better selling of the two technologies!
And yes I would say there’s more than a bit of fanboy in all of us!!
Bilbo_bobbins
really? I would of said the opposite funny enough, but each to their own lol
Nauraph
Yeah, I think when reading around on TSA you’ll see most people getting more excited about Move.
Not my personal opinion only, just what I noticed and which I think is true.
Gaztee
Yeah, but I’m not talking about here on TSA! I mean if you read the general press like the Telegraph, Kinect is King! Also I find on more multi platform forums that Kinect is what people are excited about not Move!
If move wasn’t more anticipated here then Sony would have REAL probelms!!
djhsecondnature
The complete opposite is true. I’d be curious as to where you’re getting this “general impression” from.
DrNate86
I have asked in a couple of Game and Gamestation stores which is proving more popular (just out of curiosity when asked if I want to preorder either) and Kinect preorders are much higher than Move where I am.
bunimomike
Have we had handfuls of celebs playing with Move? If not, when will Sony learn?
rossthebassist
to be honest i work in gamestation and the staff here are more excited by MOVE, but the company seems more keen on driving kinect. the irony is MOVE is out first, so drive move… then after launch drive kinect. and MAKE loads of money. the company is just daft
cc_star
@bunimomike
Over 3 years now and they still haven’t a clue
Sure there’s roadshows and they’re great as is Sony’s press events, but unless you give away a few hundred to ‘celebs’ like Chris Moyles & Jonathan Ross and many others who flirt a bit with gaming but are also prolific on social networks where they could endlessly spout about how much fun stuff is.
Mainstream press need them as well, so the newpapers and the ISP portal websites etc…
Away from TSA and our amazing community I’m slightly baffled that no one seems to have heard of Move – but can’t wait to get hold of “the thing where you are the controller”
We’re in a bubble here and on our social network circles, outside of that bubble it appears a different opinion is forming
bunimomike
It’s basic marketing 101 and Sony seem to be failing every step of the way. With the PS1 they made console gaming cool as hell. They were everywhere, promoting everything. Return to that and they’d smash MS’s marketing into oblivion!
Ryan1991
And Kinect isn’t just a slightly more advanced Eyetoy?
cc_star
Isn’t everything just an improved version of what went before it?
That’s called progress.
Bilbo_bobbins
I must admit I am a mild fanboy, I have always bought Sony and had so much fun/quality time with their products, therefore I know I can trust them. On the other hand, I also purchased an 360, didn’t like it and sold it, I couldn’t get on with it.
Move/Kinect on the other hand is different, two different types of technology. I believe Move you don’t need a subcontroller because you can use your dualshock? So it can be even cheaper I think. Kinect you have no choice to purchase the whole product. Swings and Roundabouts on what you want to buy really.
I do think we all have this mild fanboyism in everyone, but you could say that for football supporters and many other things. There is nothing wrong with it, and competition is always a good thing. It’s just the silly comments with no arguments that are not needed, well done TSA for keeping that from this website.
Nauraph
Great post, and good read.
Imagine if the Kinect would be ‘updated’ to support 4 players. Then make another chart, the difference would be even bigger.
I admit I’m always having a hard time to judge both the ps3 and 360 equally. I’m a ps3 gamer, but I’ll always try to appreciate and point out the good things that the 360 has. (Gears of War, better online, better triggers)
carson321
Its strange cecause im sure in one of the videos i saw of kinect it had 2 adults and 2 kids dancing around and jumping on top of each other?!
ericzap
Lies. All lies
Mason_Mk
It all depends on the person. Im buying the PS Move controller for £32, and that’s all i need. I have a PS Eye from The Eye of Judgement, and a dualshock 3 from my slim that i can use as a navigation, which i could always replace with a navigation controller if it gets annoying. Im going to start off with Resi 5 Gold Edition (£15) and build up my games collection afterwards (although i do have a few games that will support move, like flower), aswell as the demos on the store.
So that’s in total: £47
I don’t totally agree about the tables turning. With a 60GB PS3, you want the whole experience from the go. I wouldn’t want to buy a PS3, then have to not buy any games for it because id also need to fork out money for a HDD, Wi-Fi card etc to actually play a game, or get online.
With the move though, it’s like buying additional games to play on your console, or addition accessories to improve on the experience. They’re not required to play the PS3, but they will improve your experience with it. It’s not like the 360 or PS3 comes with 4 controllers out the box, isn’t it? They’re optional extras if you want 4 players. If your buying kinect for only yourself, it’ll cost a bomb. If your buying move just for yourself, it won’t.
mrfodder
That’s the exact same as I’ll be getting. I’m was very skeptical about Move to start with, but Greg Miller’s (IGN) hands-on with SOCOM has got me interested. A single controller and game that can be played with/without Move is a good starting point that is inexpensive. A €149 risk is another matter entirely.
minerwilly
That’s my exact same situation all i need to fork out is £32 . I have never played on a Wii so if i find I enjoy it I may buy a sub controller in the future but I dont have to .
My only concern is how do i get a demo disc ? They are bundled with the PS Eye and Move pack but i already have the eye . Do you think Sony will just make the demos available online or perhaps you can order a free disc or pick one up in a store .
mrfodder
I’ll be surprised if they don’t. After all they want to sell as many as possible. I believe all the 3D demos are on the store.
Mason_Mk
The demos will be on the PlayStation Store around launch
MegaBonez
I’m not fanboy, but I’m sick of people I know slagging off Sony, saying Move is just a blatant Wii copy. Kinect is a camera you stand in front of and move around to play games, can anyone say EYE TOY part 2!!
Mason_Mk
Totally agree with you there. Especially when you see that PS Move prototype demo from 10 years ago
Nauraph
I think they’re both simply improved copies.
But I think that’s how it works nowadays. If someone has a good idea, just copy/improve it and there you are. Almost success guaranteed.
3shirts
Why reinvent the wheel when you can just make is bigger and chrome?
Radboud
Yeah but if you look at the Move, they started prototyping it in te Eyetoy-era (10+ years ago), so it just can’t be a copy of Wii, can it?
Nauraph
It doesn’t matter if they actually copied it or not.
Whether I design a car that accidentally looks a lot like another car or ‘copy’ a car, edit it and come up with the same thing, the one that comes on the market last will always be regarded as ‘the copy’.
MegaBonez
I’m not actually complaining about it being a copy, or whatever it is. I’m just sick of XBox fanboys telling me that Move IS!
Severn2j
@Nauraph – Thats pretty much how its always been, take something and improve on it, ever since the plough.. Thats why current copyright laws are so bad, they were only supposed to last a few years but have been extended by movie/music industry lobbyists to the point that its hard to create anything nowadays without stepping on various existing patents.
Apnomis
Anyone who says its a copy of the we just send them to the YouTube video posted by Sony R&D demostrating an early Move prototype years before the Wii was even released…
As for the article, the irony of the fanboys arguing the opposite points to what they used during the PS3 vs 360 pricing debates is not lost on me, I’ve pointed it out many times before now. However I do think it’s slightly different as Move/Kinect are a peripheral not a console. I can’t wait for this time next year after both have been on sale for a number of months and the dust has settled…
Radboud
I still don’t get the need of 2 Nav controllers, as I have seen not a single multiplayer game where they use a Nav controller….
Can someone point one out to me?
Well, the comparison only works for local multiplayer (party) games, because for single player households it is very evident that the Move package will be cheaper than Kinect.
And if you talk about local multiplayer party games, I suggest (if you want a controllerfree experience) you buy a PS2, Eyetoy and Eyetoy Play 3 for the same (or lower) price as Kinect alone.
That game is so much fun and tracks 4 active players at the same time. All you miss is the HD graphics, but if you are running and jumping the graphics will be blurred anyways :P
Nah, seriously, it all depends on your viewpoint and your household setting.
commuterzombie
If you were to play a shooter game like Resi 5 or SOCOM 4 with 2-player split-screen then you’d both a need a move controller and some form of sub-controller.
minerwilly
No need for 2 sub controllers , they could still just use the Dualshocks .
Nauraph
I suppose Socom could be played with 2 players. And certainly Resident Evil 5 Gold Edition.
Perhaps Sorcery aswell.
hazelam
i’n not particularly enthused about move or kinect, but i do think move has more potential for more interesting games, mostly because of, as kevin butler would say, “what we in the future call buttons.”
3shirts
I think there is a distinction to make. As you say, any purchase we make is based on some degree of research, planning and, ultimately, opinion. Once we have chosen, anyone questioning it is essentially questioning your ability to make an informed decision. Defending your purchase is not fanboyism
I don’t think you become a fanboy until you no longer appreciate the relative benefits of an alternative product might offer someone else and view your decision as right for EVERYONE, not just you.
The other key element of a fanboi is someone whose decisions have become based on a irrational affinity for one company/product rather than a logical assessment of your needs/value/benefits.
djhsecondnature
Give this man a star!
bunimomike
Utterly spot on and worthy of post-of-the-day.
jayboy31
Great point, although I think your description of a fanboy describes me! A mournful day, I have just realised I am a fanboy, do I have to leave the site now? SONY! SONY! SONY! Sorry.
DannyFantango
I honestly don’t think I’m a gaming fanboy at all, I do have all 3 systems and enjoy them; although I do prefer the games on my PS3.
I am however a massive Apple fan boy, I think there must be a chemical coating on their products that makes me addicted to buying their stuff, currently I have an iPhone 3g, iPhone 4, iPod mini, iPod nano, another iPod nano, iPod classic, iMac, Macbook and Macbook pro.
I think I’m about one time capsule and an apple tv away from being able to open my home as a mac store.
minerwilly
I am the opposite and though I appreciate Apple do make some half decent products i’m more of a nerd and would have an Android phone over an Iphone 4 anyday . http://www.techradar.com/news/phone-and-communications/mobile-phones/htc-desire-vs-iphone-4-vs-samsung-galaxy-s-702739
I guess i don’t like to follow the crowd and I love it when people say about my HTC Desire “oh is that like an Iphone?” and I reply “Yea it’s similar but its better” !
DannyFantango
I’m sorry but no, my brother has the htc desire and it’s good but not great.
It feels cheap and plasticky, the android store sucks and has iPhone games like doodlejump for 4x the price and although it supports flash the phone has been waiting for a software update for ages.
Although saying that, all competition is good competition.
minerwilly
Its horses for courses, money wasn’t an issue for me and I preferred the Desire over the Iphone . With this weekends 2.2 update it now has the ability to record in 720p so it would be more of a runaway winner in comparisons like the one i posted .
The iphone has some nice games i agree but anything worth its salt is coming to Android .To be honest i dont game on my phone except for the odd game of poker . I will get Angry Birds and Plants V Zombies though when released !
Origami Killer
Sorry, i see the ps3 as a single player and online experience, people wanting move (like me) wont be paying for a second player, i dont think the ps3 appeals to families and split screen ( motorstorm is my only split screen exclusive) and is more for as you would say hardcore gamers. Again for the 360 families wont want it, its the same as ps3 xbox is again a sp and online experience. I think kinect is a great idea but at 130 pound hardcore gamers will say no and families will go for a wii. A move bundle at 50 pound will certinatley be bought as nearly the same price as a new release.
And yes im a ps3 fanboy, cant help it tbh
Origami Killer
But i do like some aspects of the 360 eg online and some exclusives r good
DRCD1
I find it very sad that splitscreen is disapearing. I remember when I used to invite friends to play 007 Nightfire on the PS2, it had a lovely splitscreen multiplayer, and the best part was that our friends could be on our team and just add bots to the other team. And in 007 everything or nothing, we had this amazing co-op, nearly as good as the main game, but I found it very hard and was never able to proceed past the 5th level. And now, there are very few cooperative games. You’ve got LBP, Splinter Cell and CoD and Resi5 , but instead of spliting the screen in the middle CoD also shortens their lenght. in a game so chaotic, such a small screeen makes the game near unplayable (for me). EA, please come back to doing 007 games, and tell visceral games to come too. And Crytek UK, Release another SW Battlefront. And yes, I am a splitscreen fanboy.
cc_star
Talking of Split Screen
Microsoft have patented a mechanic for drop-in/out co-op where the screen splits into two or more players whenever someone wants to join in either by pressing a button or standing in the game space in front of a camera… and then it becomes whole again if either party want to quit. Quite a neat & joined up way of doing things, as is often the case on the 360
djhsecondnature
Is that basically the tech used in Kinect?