Yesterday the world and his dog received a Sony press release proudly proclaiming a pretty darn impressive 4.1m PlayStation Move sales, as this figure excluded add-ons like the PlayStation Eye and the Navi Controller things looked to be ticking along very nicely indeed.
However, while Sony’s announcement used the word “sales” in relation to the impressive number, it actually meant “shipped”. Shipped relates purely to sales to retailers, whereas sales relates to sales through to end users. A common train of thought is that the numbers may not be all that different, but retailers would almost certainly have purchased sufficient stock to enable them to have uninterrupted supply through Christmas and maybe even a good way afterwards. This sheds a very different light on the number of PlayStation Moves actually sold through to us gamers.
Eurogamer has spoken to everyone’s favourite analyst Michael Patcher, who said “I understand that they sold through around one million through the end of October (tracking NPD results and extrapolating for Europe), and it’s reasonable that with the Japanese launch they have sold through another 1.5 million in November, but I’d peg the sell through number at closer to 2.5 million, or exactly on par with Kinect, albeit over a longer time frame.”
Of course critics could also point to the fact that 2.5m unit sales doesn’t mean it’s in that number of homes as many people may have bought more than one Move Controller, as would be expected with a motion controlling device which is geared towards the social side of gaming.
Billy Pidgeon, M2 Research senior analyst said that the Move sales into retail are “impressive”, but insisted comparisons with Kinect are better left until after the dust settles on 2010. He went on to say:
“Nintendo’s strategy to fully embrace motion control with the Wii (in addition to value pricing enabled by playing against the prevailing tech leader console design) was effective and disruptive.
Both Sony and Microsoft were initially dismissive of motion control and Wii but are now big believers. Many observers were also dismissive of Wii and remain sceptical about Move and Kinect. They are wrong.
I believe both will do well and that motion control and other interfaces using intuitive control (gesture, touch, voice) will continue to manifest strong traction into the next generation of consoles as well as in convergent devices such as smart phones, tablets and PC.”
So whilst things aren’t looking quite so rosy as Sony’s press release initially had everyone believe, it does appear that people in the know think the future is looking bright for motion control as a whole, even though Kinect appears to be firmly in the driving seat, for now.
djhsecondnature
I’m still yet to be convinced that these figures are any different to the ones that Microsoft released for Kinect which stated “retail sales”.
bunimomike
Stock to see them through until after Christmas? I’m sure most retail outlets will have a far smaller, but topped up more often, stock level. Eg. one or two deliveries a week.
cc_star
Takes 6 weeks at least on a container ship from China, so who really knows at what stage in the whole process Sony are counting these as sold, presumably when they’ve shipped them & they’ve left their factory/warehouse?
Unless Sony come out & announce it, then try and extrapolate from that data to see what the actual install base is, so we can take into account multiple purchases to be able to do a comparison things are going to be very messy, which may be what Sony intended if the sales don’t compare well.
bunimomike
So we have:
Manufactured
Shipped
Retail received
Consumer received
Roll-up, roll-up, roll-up. Ladies and gentlemen, it’s only a pound to guess how many Move controllers there are in this huge glass jar beside me. The winner will receive a Kinect.
Tuffcub
As someone who regularly sends ships across the globe I can tell that a fairly leisurely 16 knots a cargo ship will take 31 days to reach the US from China, not six weeks :)
smokeybeef
I’ve seen it before saying it normally takes 14-21 days for a cargo ship to load at china and unload in the US
cc_star
Whatever nitpickers… you’ve then got warehouse time, distribution, internal logistics + some time on stores shelves
DrNate86
I think that was to be expected though, I would have been amazed if Move outsold Kinect. There are more 360 users, and it was advertised and built up a shed load more. I’m impressed Move is doing as well as it is!
game boy
who cares? this site is turning into an xbots paradise more and more each day. A shame coz this was once one of the only PS3 only websites, and was one of the best.
cc_star
People seemed to care yesterday when it was in Sony’s favour… different story now that it looks like it isn’t *sigh*
bunimomike
You have quite the attitude, fella.
FoxHoundGabe
No, this was once (and i think it still is) one of the only fanboy-free websites, and i surely hope it remains like that.
solidsteven
Just how is this site turning into an “xbot’s” paradise?
TSA is alway fair and biased.I have not seen any fanboys on here so i don’t understand where you got that impression.
Raider197
I think you mean “unbiased”. Or I hope so anyway!
solidsteven
Yeah, whoops what a stupid mistake.
stonyk
Personally I go with the fact that TSA is still biased one way or another but generally its a more mature attitude. It’s practically impossible not to be biased to some extent. Those annoying adverts all over the site for Kinect annoy me enough to dislike Kinnect for the time I read the site for example :-)
Has anyone been to CVG recently. I swear it’s a million times worse than this site. Almost every article is about how bad GT5 is (even though they gave it 8/10!) and there was one yesterday insinuating how UC3 being set in the desert will be pants.
Please don’t let TSA ever go to such levels to attract attention. Keep up the good work.
solidsteven
TSA has never been biased and i hope never will be. I can’t belive that i put biased instead of unbiased.
kjkg
When a story doesn’t appeal to you as its about the “opposite” number, that doesn’t mean it’s in that camps favour.
I honestly think this site has equal (if not slightly more PS3) stories, so quit your yapping!
Juelz345
@ game boy
Why is it that every post you make is some biased fanboy rant? The website and community here is about people who enjoy games, regardless of console preference. If you only want PS3 news and opinions then only read the PS3 articles. Don’t like comparisons between Move and Kinect? Then stay far away from the internet and television.
In your opinion it’s a “shame” that the site is now focused on more than PS3, but to the vast majority of the users, especially the mature users, it’s been a blessing. The community has grown and become more diverse. It’s a “shame” that you cant appreciate that.
cc_star
I’m three of them, yipee!
shields_t
I’m four, bully for me.
shields_t
Surely a better barometer to assess the amount of homes with one would be to record the number of PSEyes sold since Move launched?
cam the man
There will be a large number of people that bought Move that will already have a Playstation Eye.
shields_t
I know, I’m one of them, and sadly I was too stupid to have thought of that.
Charmed_Fanatic
Still that is impressive if they sell out over xmas!
FoxHoundGabe
It has always been obvious that kinect (didnt sound catchty at the begining, but anybody here remembers “Natal” anymore? XD) would sell more that Move.
JesseDeya
Wow CC, this is a brand new level of Kinect ‘enthusiasm’ for you. Creating a whole new article to pimp Kinect over Move? Was posting your theory of Kinect domination at least three different spots in the comments sections not enough? ;)
For what it’s worth, these ‘people in the know’ don’t really seem to know any more than you or I. Blind Freddy could come up with the same crap just by reading a few business journals and game blogs. Patcher doesn’t know shite from shinola. Using NPD numbers and extrapolating to Europe is completely retarded given the US simply doesn’t embrace the PS3 like Europe and Japan. If I’m not mistaken (and I’m not) Sony already stated they sold around 1.5 million units in Europe alone in the first month. It has been 6 weeks since Andrew House (head of SCEE) made that claim so it’s not hard to believe that globally they WOULD be close to 4 million. It launched in September and sold very well – no reason to think it won’t get even better closer to Christmas.
As for Pidgeon, stating that Sony was dismissive of motion control is completely naive. If he really knew the industry he would know that Sony have been working on and with motion control since the inception of the eye toy. Whilst I’ve no doubt Nintendo’s success helped green light Move’s release, there can be no doubt that R&D was in place well before the Wii hit the street.
Kinect’s advertising budget was so enormous that whilst it ‘may’ be in the driver’s seat, by my rough calculations it still owes ~$250 million on car repayments!
cc_star
WTF dude
Don’t lay your agenda on me….
‘People in the know’ are analysts they have access to all sorts of market data, you know actual real figures, that we don’t, on top of that they have a very expensive infrastructure of reporting mechanisms so they have even more data.
They have actual sales figures in the US, so they know the attach rate Vs the PS3 install base, they can then extrapolate the data to cover the EU – sure its just a guess, but its an educated one, and one who’s figures have a basis in reality.
By the time Christmas is over, the retailers will have sold through these shipments meaning ~4m unit sales for PSMove, this compares to an expected ~5m for Kinect, putting both system in firmly customers minds and a viable platform for 3rd party developers. But ~4m sales by the time Crimbo is over is a very different proposition to ~4m sales reported yesterday with the Christmas period still to come. Still, don’t let the facts get in the way of your point ;)
JesseDeya
WTF indeed. Hey it’s your train set you can run it however you want, I just call it how I see it. In every pro Move news piece you comment to offer the counter arguement (several times) which is fine, we’ve seen you do it since Kinect was still an infant (see what I did there? Natal. Get it?). I’m not the first reader to comment on it and I doubt I’ll be the last. You’re feverish defence of Kinect has been admirable to say the least. It just ‘seems’ you’re a little too eager to see Kinect ‘beat’ Move… in fact it’s so obvious that as soon as I saw this news article title I knew it was you who had penned it. Your prefrence is as thinly veiled as mine cc.
This whole Move / Kinect race seems largely irrelevant if you ask me. Most people know what the outcome will be already right? MS will continue to spend quintillions of dollars on advertising to sell Kinect to people who aren’t even sure they want it, yet somehow feel compelled to buy it anyway. Meanwhile Move will be a confident, yet slow burner that just like the PS3 itself will gradually get the killer ‘Uncharted 2’ must have titles.
MS have committed to Kinect in such a large way, finically and strategically, that is HAS to be seen as a massive success for them or the fall out will be huge. Sony on the other hand haven’t put all their eggs in the Move basket, and can afford to let it take momentum at it’s natural pace. Both could do with more titles, but surely the Move road map for future releases looks a little more steady than Kinects? “Potential” will only go so far with consumers.
JesseDeya
Ahh you Ninja edited your post!
Facts? Hahaha please, since when has Patcher every let facts ruin his ranting.
You know what news article I’d love to see? A tally on how many times these guys actually got it right.
cc_star
Again…
Pointing out occasional facts to the blind isn’t supporting one over the other.
Since then I’ve come to the conclusion that people read what they want to read so it’s all pointless anyway.
now… lunch :D
aphex187
Sorry to say dude but Jesse might be right here because i have also noticed you on a few occasions trumping MS over Sony. I could be wrong but that’s how you have come across sometimes.
Doesn’t help with Kinect plastered all over the top of TSA either does it haha ;P
jayjay119
I’ve noticed it too, but I don’t care. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Plus there are as many Move will thrash Kinect opinions as there are the other.
brapbrapbros
long time reader just registed to reply
wat exactly have u 3 noticed? i searched back thru some move stories and cant see anything where he says anything of one over the other. just pointin out diff point of view or suggesting that the opposite of 20 fanboys think just might may be true doesnt mean he belives it or anything. chill guys dis is the best site on the web
Raider197
He was just pointing out that it was peripherals ‘shipped’, not sold like we were led to believe.
The number is a lot less exciting than yesterdays. Move needs some good games, the only things coming close have been Sports Champions and Tumble (RE5 too, but that doesn’t count), everything else has been garbage.
JesseDeya
Different companies use different reporting methodologies, yet this ‘confusion’ seems to raise it’s head several times per year. Sony said, and have said many times in the past that they don’t report ‘sell through’ numbers. Having said that, when a Move ‘unit’ hits the retail store as far as Sony is concerned it IS sold. They have been paid for that unit, the retailer now owns it and it’s up to them to sell it to the consumer.
Foxhound_Solid
The gaming world wasnt this fickle and shallow until Microsoft entered the arena…..
Move is a great add on for PS3. 4 million units sold worldwide seems right for me, Kinect doing 2.5 million is a good shout as well.
It just seems everyone is quick to strip sony of any praise these days…..
jayjay119
You’re kidding right? The Fan-boy argument has always existed, before it was Sony vs MS it was Sega VS Nintendo and it was alays as vicious.
Foxhound_Solid
I started gaming at the master system n NES stage. I had all the consoles and the fanboy war has never been as bad as it is today. You only have to listen to sales assistants ingame or check any gaming site to see this. Maybe the net is the blame as the fanboys have found a method of grouping their negativity together and shouting so loud their lungs ache. Trust me, people have always had their preference but in days when I held the SNES as the pinnacle even though I had a megadrive. There was no war kicking off over why your choice was wrong and theirs was right? Istill think the snes was the best but at the time you didn’t see SEGA being shrewd or underhand to get that extra sale. MS has brought it corporate business stance intothe gaming world and asa result the entire form of entertainment feels strained and scrutinised. Fanboy war 2010 is the worst it’s ever been. Trust.
RadicalMave07
i agree,ms only think about money and dont give a shit for the consumers,hence the ring of death.
i wish it could go back to the way it used to be,when fanboyism was not an all out war like it is now with every second person putting the other console down.i see more people putting down PlayStation than xbox though,i dont know why this is,almost all or a large majority of xbox owners owned a ps2,i think they are just trying to justify there purchase by putting the other down,despite the ps2 revolutionizing the gaming industry.i know its hard not to be biased but you cant pass judgment until you have that thing,i have both consoles but i prefer ps3 because my xbox has had ring of death 3 times,after the third time i gave up,both consoles have alot to give,so who fucking cares what the sales figures are.
jayjay119
Exactly the same excuse for me on why I prefer Sony, in the pastt 5 years I have had 4 360’s which all broke due to some technical fault, and it wasn’t due to storage, I had it upright and as aired as you can get short of dangling it out of the window, and only 1 PS3 which never let me down once.
RadicalMave07
@jayjay119
i feel your pain,i literally had to put a fan next to my xbox to play it,guess what,not even that worked.its a great console but rushed so it would be out a year earlier than the ps3,rather than trying to make a quality product all they wanted to do was make money and be one up on sony,the only people who end up suffering are the customers.
JesseDeya
On the topic of fanboyism…
I know I used to be quite passionate about ‘converting’ people to the PlayStation way after the PS3 came out, and I think the way I felt is same reason people tend to get so emotive about ‘their’ piece of hardware. Let me break down the way my brain worked (and still does to an extent):
I felt:
1) The PS3 was (and still is) a more powerful piece of kit when released. This means it _should_ give me a better experience provided that power is harnessed.
2) The PS3 offered better value for money (and still does) than an X360 if you compare feature for feature.
3) The more people that support the PS3, the better it will do, the more developers will see it as a platform worth developing for, the better the games will become.
As a gamer who wanted to really experience everything the PS3 had to offer, I felt it was in my vested interest to convince every man woman and child I spoke to that they should feel the same way and get behind it. I’ll admit I felt a lot of frustration when the media (particularly the US press) wrote the PS3 off as a failure before it even got going. I never wanted the Xbox to fail (au contraire) but I DID want the PS3 to succeed. Nay, dominate.
Fast forward 4 years and I no longer mind what people say about the PS3… it has achieved what I had always known (hoped) it would. The killer titles came, the price lowered, people bought it – it’s a success.
In a similar, but slightly less emotive way, I feel the same about Move. Although I now own an Xbox myself and could easily buy Kinect too, I honestly believe Move is the better piece of hardware with the most potential for awesomeness. As a gamer who wants to enjoy that, I feel it’s in my vested interest to help it succeed. Promoting casual shovelware is not in my interest, and I’m not sure it’s in ANY real gamers interest either. I don’t subscribe to the theory that casual gaming get’s people into ‘proper’ gaming, just refer to the iPhone and Wii for proof of that.
I do the same for games that I think are greatly underrated too, I’m currently fighting the good fight for “The Fight” (which is unfairly getting panned) and for GT5 which has copped a rough time in the press despite being nothing short of mind blowing. I do this because the success of the things I like means more of them, sequels, improvements, support etc.
My concern with Kinect is not that it won’t be fun, or the right choice for a lot of people. My concern is that potentially millions of people will steamrolled by MS’s massive advertising campaign and end up buying Kinect without ever realising Move would have been a better choice for them. This definitely happened in the early days of the PS3 – I can count a number of friends who will openly admit they wish they had bought a PS3 instead. Whilst this is good for MS and Kinect, it adversely affects the hardware that I would like to see succeed – because I want to play games that really push the boundaries of Move’s capability!