Cell Out, Standard CPU In For PS4
Sony move back to traditional architecture for next PlayStation, apparently.Published 29/12/2009 at 8:30 by nofi
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According to PC Watch, Sony are considering using a mainstream off-the-shelf processor for the PlayStation 4 as opposed to anything bespoke like the Cell. The processor for the PS4 will apparently be a multi-core affair, and one hopefully a lot easier for developerrs to get their heads around.
Other rumours coming out of Japan overnight include speculation that Sony also considered a combination Cell / Intel Larrabee duo, but have decided against it. PC Watch expect the PS4 to hit shelves in late 2012 or early 2013.
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Ed the Penguin | 29/12/2009 08:50
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I think I can cope wih 2012/13. Still a little early, but technology’s growing more rapid and they have to keep up with it I suppose.
Then again, it is DelayStation we’re talking about, so add at least a year onto that!
Kevling | 29/12/2009 08:53
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“Delaystation?”
That’s almost as witty and cutting as saying “M$”
Ed the Penguin | 29/12/2009 09:47
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You’re right… Unclean! Unclean!!!
bajere | 29/12/2009 10:55
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haha, i like them them both. DelayStation and M$ sum up both consoles
hazelam | 29/12/2009 16:57
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sums up the companies behind both consoles you mean.
Deadpixel | 29/12/2009 17:14
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It probably reveals which aspect of producing they don’t handle properly (or just don’t care about); money or time…
skibadee | 29/12/2009 18:14
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we should see a new Microsoft console first? I would have thought.
carson321 | 29/12/2009 08:51
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So what does this mean in terms of ps3 game emulation, will it be impossible, very difficult, or piss easy?? I want to keep playing most of my ps3 games even 5 years from now but it would be nice to only have to have the one system
Deadpixel | 29/12/2009 09:02
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Good point. I don’t think software emulation depends on the type of CPU. If they use the same CPU family (Cell) then emulation wouldn’t be necessary because the PS3 software would run without it. In case another type of CPU is used in PS4 I reckon there should be an extra software and hardware layer to translate software instructions from the PS3’s architecture to the PS4’s and the other way around… This sort of module was built-in in the launch model of the PS3 (PS2 compatibility) but disappeared in later models. I really hope PS4 supports it for the entire PLC because I don’t see myself as an early adopter, but in 5 years I think I DO want to play the old UC2 for nostalgia purposes
BrendanCalls | 29/12/2009 09:31
Post Hoc, Ergo Propter Hoc - YOHIMBÉ!!!
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I am a opposite to this, I have had a PS3 since launch day and I have not once ever put a PS2 disc into it, I get nostalgic about games but not enough to convince me about playing them again, although, a port of the N64’s Goldeneye may convince me otherwise
Deadpixel | 29/12/2009 09:35
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Yeah I know, but we’re talking Uncharted 2 here??? Come on….
3shirts | 29/12/2009 11:00
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I would expect an Uncharted 3 by then
bajere | 29/12/2009 11:00
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I thought id use PS1 and PS2 games on my 60gb, but i just don’t. I think that the old games remain good in the mind…Im still trying to work through MSG1, but i just seem to get side tracked. i LOVE the game, but it feels underwhelming when i have just taken Killzone or UC out the BluRay drive… What would be nice, is if this new processor would allow us to place software that can emulate the PS1,2,3 games either from disk or HDD…bit like my Megadrive emu on my MAC
deadwelsh | 29/12/2009 15:36
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i heard the next gen consoles may be dropping optical media all together. If thats the case then there’s no chance for BC, unless they make you buy games you have already dropped £40 on, via the PS store
Vandix | 29/12/2009 15:43
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This won’t happen for at least 10 years. There are still a lot of people who don’t have broadband, or any kind of internet connection. It would be foolish if MS and Sony where to ignore those sales…
hazelam | 29/12/2009 16:58
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after the go?
i don’t think so, one thing the go has proved the world isn’t ready for a download only console yet.
bajere | 29/12/2009 18:29
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i cant see download only coming to the console market for many years yet…but, they may release games on both optical and download formats. get people used to the idea for the PS5. I still think that if retailers could get into the digi stuff it would take off…
Uhyve | 04/01/2010 11:50
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hazelam: Or it proves that people won’t pay £50s extra for the same console with less features… I probably would’ve bought the Go if it cost less than the 3000.
Deathbrin | 29/12/2009 16:11
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Guess they decided that if you want PS2 games, get a PS2, if you want PS3 games, get a PS3, etc. The more the merrier, it’s becoming three mandatory consoles already.
Tiran Kenja | 29/12/2009 09:13
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Well. Since the Cell architecture has been dropped by IBM, it seems like the only move for Sony. Not really anything new or surprising. Since ‘multi-core’ is practically the only type of processor that will be on the market in the foreseeable future. So I would question if this article is really the result of some insight into the development of Sony’ next console. Or if it simply guesswork.
Gregormeister | 29/12/2009 10:20
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A few month ago I heard about plans about upgrading the current 8-core cell processor to an 32-core cell processor, what sounded (“sounded”?) really good for me. The PS3 developers are capable of programming the cell chip by now, so why change that really powerful piece of hardware that’s superior to the competition?
Despite the poor 256MB graphics board the PS3 consistently fascinated us with really beautiful games like Killzone2, Uncharted2 or GranTurismo5. It outdoes a moderate PC, so why changing? A 32-core cell chip in combination with 1024MB RAM and a potent graphics board would be the dream of every PS3 developer AND ME – or am I wrong?
Greets from Germany,
Gregormeister
Raen | 29/12/2009 11:01
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Because IBM have dropped the 32-core model from their roadmap for Cell. I think that Cell production has largely gone over to Toshiba (this is all vague memory, could be wrong) but without any development of the Cell by IBM there’s nothing for Toshiba to produce.
cc_star | 29/12/2009 10:25
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Dear developers,
All of your massive investments & learning will soon be redundant.
Sorry,
Sony.
3shirts | 29/12/2009 11:04
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Well it’s not really redundant, they have and will make games so it’s been used already and has another two years yet. At least it doesn’t mean another totally new technology next generation. It’s nothing new anyway, most console generations have been a completely new learning experience for devs
hazelam | 29/12/2009 17:07
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unlike ms, sony wont kill off their old generation just as they start turning a profit on it.
look how long they kept the ps1 in production.
Apnomis | 29/12/2009 11:40
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Is it just me or for the first time does anyone else not have the urge to usher in the next generation so early? Maybe it’s because I’m getting older or maybe it’s because of the online and firmware/patchable nature of this generation or maybe it’s just because graphics have got to the stage where they don’t age as quickly, but I have no desire to upgrade!
Of course this could all change at the E3 announcement of what amazing things the new PS4 can do, but I just don’t feel the urge to upgrade – whereas I was chomping at the bit to go from a PSX to a PS2 or my PS2 to a PS3. I mean most people (poor souls) don’t even game on a HDTV yet, let alone with a surround sound system, and next year the PS3 will have 3D compatibility for people to add to the list of benefits they are not currently getting from their console. Next year there will also be the Motion Controllers too which hopefully will further broaden the PS3’s appeal. After launching far too early with the PS3, after being forced into it by Microsoft and the HD-DVD battle, I would have thought Sony would have learnt their lesson about launching too early – I feel if they launch in 2012 you will have a situation like with the PS2/PS3 where the older generation remains more popular for a while (unless the PS4 is a Wii style radical departure from the traditional console model).
For me I don’t think devs have even scratched the surface with the PS3 yet, why not give it until 2015 before replacing it? Look at the likes of God of War 2 on PS2, the best games on the PS2 were coming at the launch of the PS3! Give the PS3 the time to allow devs to justify their investment in the CELL. If MS decide to launch early with their new console so-be-it, it’s only a console-war if Sony launch their model too, what is MS likely to add to their new console? Built in HDD as standard? High-Capacity discs? These things are already in the PS3, so in a funny way a new Xbox could help the PS3’s development (the lowest denominator for multi-plats will be the PS3), and will devs then choose to learn the new Xbox hardware (although it’s unlikely to be radically different) or just take the ‘easier’ route of developing for the PS3 and it’s larger user base – if MS drop support for the 360, how many PS2 ‘defectors’ would pick up a (by then) dirt cheap PS3 rather than fork out for the new Xbox model? Any advantage gained from early adopters picking up a new Xbox would only be the same advantage as those same early adopters wanting to pick up a PS4 when the ‘new’ Xbox is actually 2 or 3 years old (and Sony will have time to learn from any mistakes they make). Why do we have to have fixed ‘generations’ and forced console-wars every 5-6 years? Why not just release a new console if/when there is a technology or function that justifies it?
Just for once I would like the console they launch to be as good as the console they announce at the E3 press conference, and if it takes and extra couple of years to do that so be it. I would also like to see, now that consoles are moving into a more services-based offering, a PS4 that is fully compatible with the PSN and PS3 – there is no need to reinvent the wheel each generation. Obviously there are plenty of things that can be improved – but for me trophies on the PS4 should work as they do on the PS3, my PSN ID and trophy history should be the same, my PSN friends list should work on PS4 and I should be able to interact with my friends that still have a PS3 when I play PS3 games on my PS4 (which would be 100% compatible including trophies and DLC), all existing PSN games and content should also work on the PS4 – there may be some PS4 only PSN games (like there are PSP only PSN games), but PS3-based games should work. Upgrade the interface, upgrade the hardware, upgrade the control method, upgrade the graphics – but there is no need to start from scratch with the services, for me to be interested in a PS4 I would need to be able to carry a lot of my PS3 content and experiences across with me…
If I need to start from scratch on a PS4, then I don’t forsee upgrading my PS3 until at least the first major price cut or possibly not until the ‘Slim’ redesign…
stingraz | 29/12/2009 12:53
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i agree with you there. Our Psn should stay the same for sure. Will it? Does anybody know this, if so please enlighten me! I think it will…?
iNsAnE_gAmInG | 29/12/2009 13:10
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I was thinking about this the other day as a matter of fact. It would be mad if our PSN accounts did not just simply transfer over due to the fact so many trophy whores would be enraged by all their effort being thrown away in exchange for being handed a clean slate.
However, I think there may well be a high probability Sony do just start again with the PSN behind PS4, as so many accounts will just be on the PSN, but not doing anything, as many people may not bother with PS4 despite owning a PS3. As a result of this, a smaller selection of PSN ID’s available will be apparent for PS4 owners setting up online, but all these wasted ID’s will just be sat there, unused on the servers, simply taking up space and denying new PSN users the opportunity to use that particular ID, and I am unsure Sony will take that risk.
bunimomike | 29/12/2009 13:40
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There’s close to zero reason to start afresh with the PSN. The PSN is fundamentally a transactional process for any given hardware that Sony see fit. I would’ve thought Sony would simply keep on upgrading the PSN (as they always have done) so it’s absolutely stunning come the time of a PS4 launch. One of the great selling features will be telling current PS3 users that all their hard work (and money spent) isn’t for nothing. Especially, heaven forbid, if they ever went down the backwards compatability route once more.
When it comes down to it, the PSN is just software, not hardware. It’ll scale accordingly and as Sony see fit.
bajere | 29/12/2009 14:10
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i was thinking the same Apnomis. every time i hear something relating to a PS4, i just think it should be done in 2015. Otherwise the PS3 would of been a small stepping stone and a waste of development time. Would be much better to fully utilize the PS3 and have the best games peak on the release of the PS4. Time will tell i guess, but i will still get the PS4 on release tho if it is in 2012 knowing me.lol :p
bajere | 29/12/2009 14:23
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also, 2016 is the ‘10 year’ life span Sony seem to be going with, so 2015 would be good, but 2012/2013 wouldn’t be far out, so it would leave some cross over from PS3 to 4 i guess.
funkyellowmonkey(ps3 id) | 29/12/2009 20:25
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true says! lol
iNsAnE_gAmInG | 29/12/2009 13:06
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I think they should wait until 2015 roughly. Playstation 3’s are a massive investment for many, many people, therefore 2012 may well be much too early to write the PS3 off.
Also, this ‘potential’ that is supposedly within PS3 is said to have not even become close to being used yet.
cam the man | 29/12/2009 13:39
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If Sony announces that the PS4 will be released in 2012, then adding on the delays etc. we won’t see it until 2013 at the earliest.
bunimomike | 29/12/2009 13:49
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Personally, we now in a generation of hardware where most ideas are able to be realised in graphical form. I think it’s the very reason why members like Apnomis feel like there’s no genuine need to upgrade to a PS4 when it’s released. I concur. Whilst each new console will still have it’s own relative limitations it doesn’t stop the hardware from being powerful enough for developers to express themselves properly. This is where the 360 and PS3 have started to succeed. Massive sandbox environments. Graphically lush gaming and, please god, decent AI! The hardware now allows studios to run riot and I feel like we’ve got a good 3-4 years left with the current hardware even before I think about purchasing a PS4.
Sadly, it’ll only take a good tech-demo or two and most of us will be drooling like teenagers over an issue of Playboy and preparing our bank balances for another huge hit.
carlosfilippsen | 29/12/2009 14:05
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2012 sounds good tbh. I wouldnt mind buying a PS4 and a 3D TV then
Apnomis | 29/12/2009 15:20
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Thinking about it, for marketing purposes, Sony may like to split the difference and launch in 2014 (with it being the PlayStation 4 and all). 04/04/14 in Japan perhaps? Followed by a November 2014 release for us poor Europeans?
I wouldn’t mind a November 2014 release actually as that leaves a good 5 more years of gaming on PS3, which feels about right to me, and I’m sure there will be some whizzy new features to add to the PS4 by then (2014 is also the year analysts expect 40 million homes to have a 3DTV so a 3D centric console would not be a niche product). That would leave a good 3/4 years to wind down the PS3’s 10 year lifecycle along side the PS4, which seems about the right amount of time to me…
In fact if I was forced to make a bet on it I would say an early 2012 launch for the PSP2 (announced at TGS 2010/E3 2011) and a late 2014 launch of the PS4 (announced at TGS 2012/E3 2013)…
bajere | 29/12/2009 18:32
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“In fact if I was forced to make a bet on it I would say an early 2012 launch for the PSP2 (announced at TGS 2010/E3 2011) and a late 2014 launch of the PS4 (announced at TGS 2012/E3 2013)…” you might be right there, i wonder if ladbrooks will take it?? lol
Gaultar | 30/12/2009 22:24
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I really like that idea 04/04/14 launch in Japan. I can only hope that someone with enough pull at Sony gets a brainstorm like this and doesn’t launch earlier.
But my faith in mankind is so low that I expect to be lining up to buy a PS4 before 2013 ends.
RagingAvatar | 29/12/2009 15:54
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I really don’t think this is true – it’ll have to be a beast multi-core affair to cope.
However, no Cell – no backwards compatibility, no existing PSN downloads.
Oh dear.
ColinR | 29/12/2009 16:09
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I thought the PS3 had a ten year plan?
hazelam | 29/12/2009 17:01
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they mean they’ll keep selling it for ten years, like they did with the ps1,and probably will do with the ps2.
can’t remember how long exactly they were selling the ps1 for but they stopped production just before the ps3 launch if i recall.
didn’t they just launch the ps2 in brazil or some other south american country just a few months ago?
Apnomis | 29/12/2009 17:20
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It does, but that doesn’t stop an new console overlapping it – Sony never said anything about the PS3 having a 10 year single-product lifespan. Take the PS2 as the example, that reaches it’s 10th anniversary next year and already Sony have announced a range of new PS2 titles coming out next year, and people are (amazingly) still buying them new to this day – therego the PS2 will have a 10 year+ lifespan, but that didn’t stop the PS3 coming out when it was only 6/7 years old…
People read too much into that statement, it was merely Sony assuring people that they are committed to their consoles and that if you bought it at launch for it’s relatively high price then you could be safe in the knowledge that in 10 years time you could still be playing brand new games (inc. online) and movies on that platform. He did not say however that the PS3 would be the only Sony console on the market in 10 years. It was mainly a dig at MS who ruthlessly slaughtered their original console after just 4/5 years on the market – it was a way of placing that seed of doubt in peoples minds to think “What is to stop MS switching off the 360 in 3/4 years when they launch the Xbox 3? Maybe I should wait and get a console that, although a bit more expensive, will be around in 10 years…”. Sony have always liked to scare monger the prospect of MS ushering in PC style 18 month hardware lifecycles for consoles…
hazelam | 29/12/2009 17:04
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wonder what excuse sony will come up with for delaying the eu launch for the ps4, might as well not bother now because we all know it will just be so they can cut out features for the eu version to save themselves some money, at our expense, literally as the eu version will be the most expensive.
bunimomike | 29/12/2009 19:00
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As a Japanese company with utterly huge sales on their own shores at launch, I completely understand them rolling it out across the regions with a staggered timeline. Add to this that as soon as they get a million units ready, it’s basically ready to release (in Japan). Not good to be stockpiling too much hardware.
TheShepanator | 30/12/2009 20:09
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When DL only games come around sony are going to lay claim to innovting the whole idea of it though aren’t they?
TheShepanator | 30/12/2009 20:19
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number 4 is an unlucky japanese number, perhaps it will have a name & not a number?
Dex | 01/01/2010 19:55
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Super Playstation?
Or maybe that’s more of a nintendo thing :p