Xbox LIVE’s Stephen Tolouse has been blogging about his thoughts on people using Swastika logos on CoD: Black Ops. Those who do will feel the almighty blow of the ban hammer:
“Tonight I got asked one of those questions that only my job can apparently engender, namely “Hey, I’m not a genocidal hater of Jews but I really love the design of the swastika because its actually used by numerous religions, can I use it as my Call Of Duty: Black Ops logo? SWASTIKAS ARE AWESOME.No really, someone asked me this as a serious question on twitter. So I of course replied, “no, of course you can’t, we’ll ban you.”
Tolouse then goes on to explain that whilst the Swastika does has various meanings depending on orientation, “no educated human on the planet looks at the swastika symbol on a video game service in “the year we make contact” and says “oh, that symbol has nothing at all in any way to do with global genocide of an entire race and, even if it did, one should totally and reasonably ignore that because it’s a symbol that was stolen or coop-ted from religions.”
Apparently this hasn’t gone down well with some, who are now calling for the Star of David, the Christian Cross, and the Infinity Symbol to also be banned.
Tolouse then signs off by saying the following:
“The Xbox LIVE profile and in game content you create is accessible by everyone. You do not have the context inside of it to explain your long winded contrarian view that your pithy text that violates the Terms of Use or Code of Conduct is actually intended to change people’s minds about a commonly held understanding.
It’s not political correctness, it’s fundamental respect. If you think the swastika symbol should be re-evaluated by societies all over the Earth, I think that’s great. Your Xbox LIVE profile or in game logo, which doesn’t have the context to explain your goal, is not the right place to do that. And by the way, that doesn’t just go for the Swastika, it applies to many other symbols as well that my team does indeed take action on when we see it.
Context.
Yes we can have the discussion in other venues about the double meaning of various terms, something my team does everyday. But for many topics, its kind of a no-brainer.
*Context*
If you see offensive symbols in Call of Duty, Black Ops, report them using the in game option and they will be taken care of. If you want to argue that swastikas are actually AWESOME, go to another forum. On Xbox LIVE they are not allowed.”
Source: Stepto
cc_star
Fair enough, it’s their platform therefore you abide by their rules.
Grey_Ghost13
Agree, on another note I’ve seen some rather “intriguing” designs by CoD BlOps players on their player cards, a gorilla, a Horse and a very large member was seen in one the other night! Will these also get banned? I think the addition of customizable icons was a great move by Treyarch, but yet again it is being abused by a small minority of users.
bunimomike
A very large member of what? TSA? I can see why that might feel threatening. ;-)
SpikeyMikey23
Lol ive seen a few. The one I mentioned below along with a man shooting a gorrila in the groin and 2 rabbits humping.
jcor
A couple of friends were playin the other nite & claimed someone had made what they could only describe as a full blown animal orgy!
I haven’t actually seen a swastika myself though.
teflon
“…whilst the Swastika does has varies meanings…”
Sorry, guess I’m just something of a grammar Nazi. Can I have a Swastika now please?
teflon
“…whilst the Swastika does has various meanings…”
Still wrong ;)
bigdon23
There are 2 types of swastika, the Nazi one and the hindu/budhist 1, but whilst they may look the same they are different in that they are a mirror image and not a perfect match.
http://www.religionfacts.com/buddhism/symbols/swastika.htm
warp10ck
Yeah some guys using the swastika had the clan tag SS where hunted down on free for all servers.
bunimomike
Ah, symbolism in games. Ignore the fact that games often depict harrowing atrocities in all shapes and forms. Still, their football, their rules.
SpikeyMikey23
I saw an emblem yesterday on psn. It was a massive cock. It ha foliage and veins too. I thought it was a cracking creation. Best yet…. It was wearing an army helmet! I even sent him a message to tell him I thought it was funny as.
minerwilly
Lol , i had to take it back to Blockbusters today but im going to get it back on Wednesday (i only pay a £1 a week for my rentals).
What rank do you need to be to be able to draw a large c**k on your gamercard ?!
iAvernus
LOL! That’s all well and good, but a religious symbol that was taken and made into a symbol of mass death is band worthy. Oh well…I guess killing people in game and teabaging them is still ok.
Raen
Actually mildly surprised he’s had to defend this. God people suck.
shields_t
You don’t like God people?
;-)
iAvernus
LOL!! Good one.
DrNate86
It’s fairly stupid trying to argue that you should be allowed a swastika on religious grounds, as he says, it is a massively recognizable symbol for the Nazis and without any context, put in a war game, it will be taken as such. Personally I wouldn’t care if I saw one, but I certainly wouldn’t try and argue it was appropriate!
Kovacs
I don’t know what’s worse, the fact that Stephen Tolouse had to explain this, or his grammar.
Oh ZING!
(I’m joking)
Tuffcub
I saw lots of Swastikas in COD:WAW can I report them to MS?
iAvernus
Very good point.
Tuffcub
“It’s not political correctness, it’s fundamental respect. ” – so showing a Swastika on a profile is BAD but making a game (and millions of profit) featuring them is fine.
Yes, you’re right, it’s all about CONTEXT isnt it?
Toulouse, I bestow you with this weeks “Muppet Of The Week” award. Well done, it’s only Monday.
The Mysterious Phantom Bear
I think using a swastika in the context of a historically set game is slightly different to some immature wannabe racist using it to get some mild form of notoriety via a COD lobby.
JesseDeya
That’s basically what I’m trying to say below – I just used about 2000 more words than I need to :).
MS want their cake and to eat it too. Don’t they know the cake is a lie?
jikomanzoku
May I second your thoughts TC and commend your selection of this weeks “Feckwit” This sort of thing is poorly thought through, based on stupidly narrow minded logic and just doesn’t stand up to scrutiny.
Dear Microsoft I was happily engaged in a game the other day killing various different peoples with a variety of firearms and explosives, knives too – in a variety of scenarios representative of historical conflicts. There have been hundreds if not thousands of deaths and scenes of torture. However in multiplayer I noticed a player had chosen a swastika as their badge and was morally outraged – please address this immediately.
cubes vs spheres TM – the future of the FPS. I thought nerf would be far enough removed but I’ll bet someones had their eye out with one of those in a freak accident, and we wouldn’t wanna offend anyone – right?
The Mysterious Phantom Bear
Definitely agree on the preaching aspect but it’s only the same criticism that could be leveled at Hollywood with their endless war epics.
Doofer_Nasenmann
The Swastika is censored in the german game for example. So they are not in the game but could be seen in the profile. That would be offending (to some) and simply against German law. So you see, context matters. A lot. What can be ok in some territories is definetly not ok in others.
Maybe you should get your newly invented award yourself, Tuffcub.
cc_star
Actually ‘in-game’ rather than user created images like those being debated most game’s designers save themselves the trouble by just including a black cross in white circle on a red background – that way a game doesn’t need editing for Germany.
Raen
Well yeah it is context, in a World War II game it would be weird if there were no Swastikas featured. It doesn’t show implicit support of the Nazi’s, in the same way that Swastikas in a World War II documentary doesn’t. However having one on your profile or on your arm does imply some support for what the Nazis did, even if it isn’t your intention.
JesseDeya
Plenty of WWII games have got the message across without explicitly using the Swastika, if MS were actually serious about ‘fundamental respect’ they would fundementally object to the Swastika being displayed in any games released on their console. Of course, that would also mean people would start to see their games as being censored, which in turn might lose them some game sales and hence royalty revenue (oh noes) so instead they make a song and dance about user logos instead of actually backing up their words with a _real_ display of respect for holocaust victims.
It also begs the question how zombie nazis are in ANY WAY mean to be historically accurate or documentary in nature. Their very inclusion is a flippant use of the Nazis image as a lighthearted form of entertain, and certainly couldn’t be seen as paying respect to the millions of people who died as a result of their actions. Band of Brothers is respectful, Medal of Honor is respectful, Nazi Zombies is most definitely not – trivialising the entire subject for extra sales. Whilst I don’t personally object to zombie nazis, it does make you wonder why people can be so bipolar about these things. Nazis in games is ok, Taliban in games is disgraceful (apparently), swastikas in game textures is ok, swastikas in game user logos is disgraceful (apparently).
MS are being super hypocritical in this instance, as would Sony be if they did the same thing. There is context, and that context is video game entertainment, which cannot and should not be taken this seriously.
JesseDeya
So let me get this straight, they (Microsoft) clearly condone a game that has the Swastika emblazoned in several levels within the game, without I might add, any kind of warning to consumers before they purchase the game – yet if a player wants to use the _exact_ same symbol in such a way that its use is also entirely contained within that _exact_ same game… they will be banned?
Oh Microsoft, nothing if not inconsistent. BTW, it’s not fundamental respect, it’s “corporate arse covering” because let’s be honest here – Jews in America have an incredibly strong voice.
I’m willing to bet if I made a hammer and sickle I wouldn’t get a second look – yet this is the very symbol used by Stalin when he oversaw the genocide of 23 million during the great purge. By comparison, the atrocities of Hitler weigh in at 12 million. Fundamental respect my arse.
Just to be clear, I have no interest in making or using such ridiculous symbols, nor do I condone their use by gamers who are more than likely just trying to get a rise – HOWEVER – Microsoft as part of the games industry only have themselves to blame for this situation. For years now game devs have used WWII and the familiar images associated with it to provide us with entertainment and subsequently make a crust. It’s more than hypocritical to then turn around and act so appalled when a gamer chooses to do the same thing (minus the crust of course). When you go and play CoD 2, or World at War, and you compete online you can actively choose play as a German soldier and have your virtual character actually represent the very people reponsible for the genocide Microsoft are seemingly so senstive towards. Irony much? Microsoft are more than happy to sell us avatar items representing all our popular gaming factions from Gears of War to Halo to Kinectimals – who’s to say the gamers they have helped shape with countless WWII titles don’t view the the Wehrmacht and Nazi’s of WWII in much the same way? I certainly don’t but it’s food for thought.
jikomanzoku
Good points, well made.
all symbols, be they those of faiths, social groups, or nations, will no doubt be representative of past attrocities oppressions or injustices – and be therefore offensive, to someone, somewhere.
Rob92
Exactly, Stalins era of purging is far worse in comparison in terms of mass loss of human life – yet it doesn’t hold the same ‘weight’ when it comes to the Nazi’s.
And I mean come on, “Nazi Zombies”? Talk about trivialising the subject. If they have a so called fundamentak respect they wouldn’t condone a game which flounces Nazi imagery and events so liberally.
I do not and would not ever condone the use of the swastika in the context these people are trying to, but MS and the gaming industry in general have only gone and somewhat lessened the impact of the Nazi’s within the gaming area so they’re not to be surprised really.