We’ve already discussed this morning how both Sony and Microsoft are playing a very tactical, strategic game, and will continue to do so for the rest of the year. Reveal too much, too soon, and your opponent knows everything there is to know.
Like the issue on pre-owned games, for example. Sony has at least one patent relating to locking out the re-sale of games and Microsoft are rumoured to be doing something similar with the next Xbox. Nothing is confirmed, and nobody’s going to confirm yet either.
That said, at least Sony’s Michael Denny is on the right track. Speaking to CVG after last week’s PlayStation 4 reveal, he says that preventing the re-sale of pre-owned games is a “massively important issue” and understands why “it’s one that keeps coming up and will keep coming up, because people want to know what the exact stance is.”
“Of course we’re mindful of what the game development community wants and what the wider industry issues are with those things,” he adds.
“I think in good time that will become clearer. It’s not something that I feel I have any further announcement or comment to make on, other than to acknowledge with you that it’s a massively important issue and of course we are going to do the right thing.”
Sony aren’t going to confirm what they’re doing 100% either way until Microsoft do – if one console locks out pre-owned games and the other doesn’t, it’ll be a huge blow sales-wise.
Careful, piecemeal steps.
cc_star
PlayStation World or PS+ with 3 tiers. Playback of preowned dics will be locked to one of those tiers.
All of Sony’s wriggling since Yoshida’s headline grabbing straight after PlayStationMeeting suggests that preowned games won’t playback as standard, there can be no other thing for it other than enabling it as part of a premium service.
Yoshida has already said this today “So hypothetically we can look at different models – like a cable TV company,” Yoshida explained. “We could have gold, silver or platinum levels of membership… We can do subscription services when we have more content – especially now that we have the Gaikai technology available. With one subscription you have access to thousands of games – that’s our dream.”
So now it’s just a question of which tier it is and then it’s up to Sony to work out how to revenue share with publishers/developers. Surely?
KeRaSh
I don’t think that a subscription to play preowned games would fare well in the eyes of the public. It would make more sense to let publishers put next gen online passes that also work to unlock preowned games on the PSN store. That way Sony can divert the blame to the publishers and still get a cut from the sale through the PSN store.
Kris Lipscombe
What do you mean by “work to unlock preowned games on the PSN store”? Allow you to sell back games from the PSN you no longer want, like Green Man Gaming does?
cc_star
Makes more sense for the platform holder, but it doesn’t appease industry concerns that Sony are “mindful of”.
That happens now, so there’s no need for Sony to be ambiguous over it.
It’s gonna be a while before we find out too, because of the Xbox event isn’t until April, Microsoft are hardly going to shout it from the rooftops if they have a restriction in some way so they’ll carry on dancing around one another for a while after.
KeRaSh
@Kris: I mean something like an online pass but this time around it will not only unlock the online part of a pre owned game but also the singleplayer content.
@cc_star: I’m hoping Sony finally grows a pair and just tells them to suck it up but I’m afraid they are too afraid to make even one publisher mad so your scenario is definitely not unthinkable. It’s actually sad how little power the platform holder actually has compared to the big publishers that would do anything to get another Dollar/Pound/Euro out of our pockets.
Starman
Totally agree. I could see the free level being the same as you get from psn now, ps+ giving streaming access to your plus library. Then finally a premium package giving preowned access and a few other gubbins.
The money made from Xbox live subs is too much for Sony to ignore, and of course it can be spend on network infrastructure improvements.
Starman
That was meant to be agreeing with cc star!
cc_star
Don’t worry, I always take it that everyone agrees with me.
;)
(better put the winking, smiley face, emoticon or whatever they’re called, in case people think I’m serious)
cam the man
Maybe a monthly/yearly pass just for pre-owned games unlocking would be good for those who don’t want to shell out on PS+/World.
xdarkmagician
the problem with that is youre still going to have to buy an online pass from the publisher. Its highly doubtful Sony would lock used games just to pay back the publisher. If Sony is going to lock used games they’ll be doing it for the licensing fees theyre losing. And since they wont be able to charge per game if Sony did send a percentage back to the publisher, the publisher would lose money because instead of paying $10 per game they be getting $10 for a years worth of games. So I cant see any publisher wanting Sony to sell a subscription for used games.
I think Yoshida’s quote is more focused towards the PS+ model and the streaming services they’re going to offer.
jimmy-google
I still can’t see it going beyond online passes especially with the EU courts ruling that it is legal to sell games on digitally as well.
The courts are now working out if the likes of Steam, PSN etc.. have to provide a feature for selling second hand games digitally.
LTG Davey
Why do i get the feeling we are going to be sick of these snippets of Xbox/PS information by the time the consoles actually come out, lol :P
For me, in order for either of the next gen of consoles to be day-one purchases, they need the following:
1. Pre owned support – essential for me as LoveFilm acts as my main means of playing games. I don’t mind buying the occasional online pass if needs-be, but blocking out the pre-owned market entirely would put me off.
2. No DRM – I’m currently moving into a house with an estimated broadband speed of 1MB (providing the wind is blowing in the right direction at the time). Suffice to say I doubt my connection is going to be reliable enough to cope with some always-online rubbish
3. Party chat – Gaming is a social thing, not Facebook and all that bollocks, I mean switching off after a long day at work, playing some games and talking to your mates. What let the PS3 down majorly for me was that I could only chat to my mates if we were all playing the exact same game, and we would usually have to chat in the same channel as 10yr old JonnyDBag from America rather than in a private party.
4. At least 3 major exclusives at launch – Sony seems to have delivered the goods with Killzone, Infamous and DriveClub but it will be interesting to see what Microsoft announce. We haven’t seen a proper Rare game for a while so a new Banjo or Perfect Dark would be ace. Forza is pretty much a given. MS will need to announce some new stuff though in order to rekindle my faith in them, as the last three years as an Xbox owner have been pants.
5. Console + game + spare controller should cost no more than £400 – I bought my PS3 + games at launch for £500 like so many others and I loved it but I’m not in the same position as I was back then. I’m married and have a daughter so £400 will be my absolute maximum.
6. Backwards compatibility – Not so much from a software standpoint (I typically buy new consoles to experience new stuff, rather than playing the same stale games I already own), but hardware should definitely be re-usable in some way. I have 4 Xbox360 controllers (each with a £35 price tag) and the thought of just throwing them away or trading them in for a couple of quid each at GAME turns my stomach.
7. Minimal adverts! – I cannot stress this one enough. The 360 dashboard is loaded with adverts for Lovefilm, deoderants, sky, etc, etc, despite me giving Microsoft £40 a year. If I am a paying subscriber I see no reason why I should have adverts pushed down my throat.
Phew, I think that’s it, lol.
jimmy-google
I’m with you on most of them. Chat features have never bothered me and I’ve got no plans to move my ps3 from under the TV. i think you’ve pretty much nailed what most people want.
One big selling point is my wife can watch a film on the PS3 and I can continue a PS4 game by streaming it to my Vita. If I want to play a PS3 game (which I probably won’t do once I have a few PS4 games) I can just play it on the PS3.
LTG Davey
Yeah, the streaming to handheld feature is something I used a fair bit during my short time with the Wii-U. Such a simple idea but works well in a family home.
As for party chat, its the sort of thing I wouldn’t use initially as I can’t see many of my mates jumping to the new consoles right away, but it would be something I would use a lot later on I think
Sheepdip
I’m guessing you have never used the PS3’s cross-game chatroom feature then…
Perhaps listening less to internet mis-information about what the PS3 claims not to have, and actually plugging in your brain and looking for yourself.
I seem to recall this feature was added WAY back in firmware 2.7….
Use the PS3 x-game party chat all the time here, just for the fact I don’t want friends in different games to be sat in game specific chatrooms…
Kronik76
Cross game chat and the chatroom feature are two very different things. Have you ever tried using the chatroom when trying to play a game? It’s a royal pain in the arse. Cross game chat allows gamers to chat while they play. Unless you have four hands and move at the speed of light the chatroom is only really for when you’re not playing a game. So the ‘plugging in your brain’ comment was a little unnecessary.
Taylor Made
I work in CEX we rely on second hand games along with gadgets but our big attraction is second hand so they best not mess up my pay
BULLofDOOM
I dislike pre-owned games and the effect on developers, though equally I do not wish retail to suffer more closures and job losses.
The one time redemption codes work well, a guy next to me at GAME walked out with a new FIFA13 having originally wanted to save 5pounds via a pre-owned copy but without the online pass.
The tier system ccstar talks about seems the best approach. Also releasing more demos, if your game is great then a demo should see more day one purchases, rather than consumers holding back for it to drop in price.
Another thing – drop the price of day one digital! You didn’t ship it! You have not wrapped it in plastic! A tree did not bleed to provide an instruction manual for bathtime reading! Nor was anyone employed to scan and sell it! So shave 25% off Digital copies on release, 49.99 is stupid!
Paranoimia
I can see that blocking used games won’t be popular, even though I personally buy all my games new.
But people do realise that they need to buy new games sometimes, right? I mean, if you don’t, there won’t be any games to play.
The movie industry has other income sources – they make millions from cinemas. The music industry, too – artists make most of their money from tours, not record sales. They don’t necessarily *need* income from used DVDs and CDs. But the games industry only has income from the the sale of new games.
If you like gaming, you owe it to yourself to buy games new. If it’s too expensive, you need to find a cheaper hobby, or be more selective in what you buy. I’d like to collect Ferrari’s, but I don’t because it’s out of my financial range.
If you don’t buy new games, everything will become watered-down like the Android/iOS crap and littered with IAP. Remember all the fuss just a few weeks ago about IAP in Dead Space 3? If you want that in every game, keep buying used.
Or wait just a few weeks for the price to drop – you don’t need every game the day it’s released, and at least the developer will still get something.
LTG Davey
Remember of course that, in order to buy a game second hand, someone else needed to buy it new in the first place. That’s what I tell myself and I sleep ok at nights as a result :D
kjkg
Surely this isn’t outside your price range?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FERRARI-348-GTB-1993-MANUAL-PARTS-ONLY-/260877562774?pt=Automobiles_UK&hash=item3cbd83b396
BULLofDOOM
Ha, I know from playing Forza that Ferrari is good for a few more laps, just 1 pound – bargain!
BULLofDOOM
Well said! I’d love to go snowboarding weekly but cannot afford to so I choose other hobbies.
The argument “we should be able to buy cheaper via pre-owned, it is our right” goes up against developers rights to seek payment for their work. It is a moral choice and consumers are greedy, you want it bad enough then you save and give payment WHERE it is due.
hazelam
you fail to take into account several factors there.
you say games don’t have other income streams?
that’s simply not true.
there’s dlc, online passes, books, comics, toys, movies, tv shows, a whole world of tie in merchandise.
you’ve been able to get game branded clothing since the nes days.
then there are the less tangible benefits of the preowned market, how many people trade in their games to buy new?
if nobody can use preowned games, store won’t allow them to be traded in, therefore, less new game sales.
and store will have to charge the full rrp for all the games, where do you think that money off from the rrp comes?
you don’t think it’s the publishers do you?
it’s the store taking a hit.
how can they manage that though?
get rid of the preowned market and no more subsidising lower than rrp prices with sales of preowned games.
and as mentioned before, they got paid for every preowned game on sale, they got their fair, legal due.
apparently they feel that’s not enough, and they say gamers are “entitled”?
and what about longer term?
when games have outlived their profitable phase by a number of years, no preowned and all those games are gone, dead.
if they want these games to be disposable, they better start charging disposable prices.
i find it very depressing that some so called artistic people who develop games would rather they collect dust on some shelf somewhere than anybody else get to experience the game once the original owner is done with it.
i mean, i’ve bought games that are five and ten years old, they were never going to make the publisher any money ever again, especially with bc going the way of the dodo.
there are games people would never get to play without the preowned market.
i can get why you want to see the developers rewarded for their work, so do i.
but what about the buyers?
they probably worked hard to get the money to buy that game, don’t they deserve a return on their investment?
if i buy a game, what right do they have to tell me i can’t give it away or sell it?
LTG Davey
Well said.
BULLofDOOM
It all goes back to the source and if the source is making a loss through the pre-owned market and/or piracy they have every right to take protective measures.
Developers are not charities and for them to carry on producing great games they need return on their investment. If everyone bought new then I would expect better prices, but prices are going up due to costs and losses.
How many great studios have we lost this gen? If you love a hobby you should support it and by it I mean the source and not the middle man. Is saving a few pounds per purchase worth denying a games creator revenue to cover costs and invest in providing more great entertainment?
Please note this is all personal opinion and as with whenever this ugly topic has been brought up before there is no right or wrong. There is only what the individual believes is right or wrong. In my case I don’t support pre-owned but do support a meet in the middle that sees the industry as a whole grow.
bunimomike
I love driving but I cannot afford a new convertible so I make do with a second hand one. We live in a free enough society where, thankfully, I’m allowed to do such a thing. The chap who I bought my car from buys new but I’m sure he’s glad with the £15,500 I gave that went towards his new version of what I have.
If developers are truly losing out then they need to charge more for the initial (new) sale. Simple as that. The market itself will let them know if consumers think their titles are worth the money.
It’s why games like Skyrim could be £50+ and smaller titles £20 or so. The full gamut of pricing to cover the full gamut of gaming.
Kronik76
Did you really need to tell us how much your car cost? ;)
dizwod
Me and 2 others cycle through games, we will buy a game and lend to each other. Obviously this will affect that theres noway we are going to spend £50 on the same game 3 times.
Online passes are a pain but i think they suffice enough for the preowned area, most games I dont play online anyway but if they said here you have to pay £2-3 to unlock the game onto your console then sony would be quids in, as if someone is going to buy a game for £40 they will, if not they wait for it to go down in price (as I do as cant afford full price games) I rarely buy pre owned but a few quid on the PS store to unlock a feature wouldnt break the bank
CR8ZYH0RSE
That’s if Gaiki is up and running day one,i’m sure i saw somewhere yesterday that it won’t i could be wrong but i really doubt it as i’m right 99.9% of the time.8)
gazzagb
“Do the right thing” – For who, gamers or publishers? I still think it would be commercial suicide for them to block pre-owned games, but if MS and Sony agree together that both consoles will block them, then we’re pretty screwed.
hazelam
the right thing according to who though?
capcom?
ea?
ubisoft?
i’m sure they’ve got a very different idea of what constitutes “the right thing” than i do.